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From: Helge Hafting <helge.hafting@aitel.hist.no>
To: v j <vj.linux@gmail.com>
Cc: davids@webmaster.com, trent.waddington@gmail.com,
	"Michael K. Edwards" <medwards.linux@gmail.com>,
	"Linux-Kernel@Vger. Kernel. Org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>
Subject: Re: GPL vs non-GPL device drivers
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:36:56 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <45DB0788.1000600@aitel.hist.no> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9b3a62ab0702192119l1bf9a284la93c9d1f01638ca4@mail.gmail.com>

v j wrote:
>> You are trying to cram this in a simple yes or no box, and it just 
>> doesn't
>> fit. There are questions nobody knows the answers to (such as what 
>> rights
>> you need to distribute a derivative work or whether compiling code 
>> makes a
>> translation).
>
> Thanks, all for the discussion. I certainly learnt a lot. I definitely
> expected to be flamed and roasted for posting my original message, and
> was not disappointed :)
>
> I do not possess all the knowledge ("legal" and technical) that people
> who have contributed to this discussion possess. However I will still
> comment from a user's perspective, which was my original point.
>
> Many companies in the embedded field still mistakenly feel (or felt
> until a while ago) that Linux was not right for them. That they would
> have to open source their code, that they would not get adequate
> support, and that Linux was too big and heavy to perform well in an
> embedded platform. People like me who were Linux Desktop junkies were
> actually trying to convince companies of the opposite.
>
> Now the popularity of Linux is exploding in the embedded space. Nobody
> talks of VxWorks and OSE anymore. It is all Linux. Perhaps it would be
> a worthwhile experiment to study this surge in popularity. I am not an
> expert, but perhaps the reason is "it works so goddamn well and has a
> wealth of third party FREE software". Sure its a bit of work to make
> it work on our platform and we don't have to Enea or Windriver to
> write our gripes to. But it definitely is worth it.
>
> Now it would also be worthwhile to contemplate what EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL
> does to this popularity. I don't know. I am just giving you my
> opinion. The moment companies learn of something like this, alarm
> bells start to go off. This is not rational. I personally have nothing
> against open-sourcing all software. *But*, this is not how companies
> think.
>
> Let's think about why Linux became so popular and strive towards
> keeping it that way instead of resorting to innovative ways of just
> confusing a lot of people.
>
> Having said this, I am committed to contribute back to the Linux
> community in any way I can, not withstanding my present employer. Keep
> up the good work guys!
>
As linux becomes popular, there will always be some people looking
at it that find that it don't fit them perfectly.  That don't mean
we have to make sure linux fits them too - they may be better off
with something else, or we may be better off without them.
Linux has a price - you can use it compeltely free but we want
any useful changes you might make. If everybody sat on their stuff,
linux wouldn't be useful to you today.

There are embedded developers who don't have a problem with
writing GPL drivers.  And there are embedded developers who
don't need any special hardware driver.  No _kernel_ change,
no open-sourcing of company code.  It was never a problem, and
will never be a problem, to run proprietary user processes "apps"
on a linux kernel.

If you have a need for "secret" source code, stuff most of it
in userspace.  Make the drivers truly minimal; perhaps their
open/closed status won't matter that much when the bulk
of the code and the cleverness is kept safe in userspace.

Note that keeping drivers small this way is the recommended
way of working anyway. It isn't merely a way to keep your
code away from the GPL - you always want a small kernel.

Helge Hafting

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-02-20 14:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <9b3a62ab0702142115m4ea7d2c0m6869eb64ef3ee14e@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15  5:16 ` GPL vs non-GPL device drivers v j
     [not found]   ` <75b66ecd0702142130x64824694ieee1869d0d70ab15@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15  5:38     ` v j
2007-02-15  5:47   ` Trent Waddington
     [not found]     ` <9b3a62ab0702142214p5c33a02am7e783c59ae0a64f1@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15  6:16       ` v j
2007-02-15 12:45         ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15  6:35       ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  6:46         ` v j
2007-02-15  6:56           ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  7:32           ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15  9:44             ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 10:50               ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 14:24             ` Jan De Luyck
2007-02-15 14:37               ` Benny Amorsen
2007-02-15 14:47                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 17:49                 ` Jan Knutar
2007-02-15  7:55           ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 14:45           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 20:21           ` Chris Snook
2007-02-15 22:34             ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  4:20             ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15  6:11   ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15  6:27     ` v j
2007-02-15  6:43       ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  6:55         ` v j
2007-02-15  7:02           ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  7:09             ` v j
2007-02-15  7:18               ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  7:30               ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 11:52                 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-15  7:11       ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-15  7:28         ` v j
2007-02-15  7:43           ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  7:53             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  8:11               ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  8:35                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 20:56               ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:51                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  0:38                   ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 12:53                     ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-17  2:42                       ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17  8:29                         ` Neil Brown
2007-02-18  2:55                           ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  3:26                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18  6:56                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  7:20                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  8:54                                 ` Oleg Verych
2007-02-18 23:42                                   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 13:57                               ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-18 21:16                                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18  1:26                         ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18  1:28                           ` David Lang
2007-02-18  1:51                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 17:48                           ` David Schwartz
2007-02-19 20:55                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 21:53                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:26                                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 22:48                                   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:58                                     ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 23:18                                       ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 23:26                                         ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  0:28                                           ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20  0:36                                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  0:50                                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20  0:55                                                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  0:58                                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20  1:00                                                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  7:48                                                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  8:24                                                     ` v j
2007-02-20  9:01                                                     ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  1:29                                       ` David Schwartz
2007-02-20  5:19                                         ` v j
2007-02-20 10:54                                           ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-20 11:00                                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 15:14                                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-20 15:39                                               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 14:36                                           ` Helge Hafting [this message]
2007-02-20 20:30                                             ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2007-02-21 12:45                                               ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-21 22:08                                         ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:30                                           ` Nuno Silva
2007-02-22  0:26                                             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:34                                           ` David Lang
2007-02-22  0:28                                             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22  1:30                                               ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22  2:05                                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22  4:17                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22  4:24                                                     ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-22  6:12                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22  9:28                                                     ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-22 16:45                                                     ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-22 20:30                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25  0:59                                                       ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-22 14:14                                                   ` Alan
2007-02-22 22:42                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23  0:18                                                       ` Alan
2007-02-23  1:12                                                         ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-23  1:21                                                         ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:10                                                 ` Alan
2007-02-22 21:36                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 22:28                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 10:42                                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-25 11:33                                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-25 19:39                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-26  0:47                                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-26  1:54                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 11:54                                             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 13:52                                               ` Alan
2007-02-25 14:21                                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 19:10                                                   ` Alan
2007-02-26 10:16                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-26 14:12                                                       ` Alan
2007-02-25 22:27                                                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-26 10:17                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 20:15                                               ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 17:56                                             ` Stephen Clark
2007-02-19 22:47                               ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 13:09             ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15  8:12           ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 10:01           ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 10:51             ` Mohammed Gamal
2007-02-15 11:00               ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 11:05                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 11:17                   ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:15                 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:35                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 13:14                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15 14:43           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:22           ` Stuart MacDonald
2007-02-16  0:36             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16  9:44               ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16  9:58               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15  7:24       ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15  9:54       ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 14:14       ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15 14:43       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:25       ` Rik van Riel
2007-02-15 16:53       ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-15 18:20         ` v j
2007-02-15 18:41           ` Josh Boyer
2007-02-16 15:34             ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 18:58           ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 19:02           ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16  1:12             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16  1:14               ` David Lang
2007-02-16  5:48                 ` v j
2007-02-16  5:57                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  6:25                     ` v j
2007-02-16  6:40                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16  6:45                       ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  9:16                         ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 10:00                           ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-16 11:42                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 11:51                               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 13:29                               ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-17  2:42                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17  6:44                                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17  7:26                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:35                           ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-16 17:12                           ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-16 21:26                             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 17:08                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-17  2:42                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 10:46                               ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 14:19                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:30                                   ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 23:55                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  9:00                                       ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-19 17:53                                     ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18  5:15                                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 22:18                               ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-17 23:04                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:04                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16  9:52                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 13:44                         ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 10:30                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:38                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 14:04                       ` Neil Horman
2007-02-16 14:14                       ` Jesper Juhl
2007-02-17  2:59                         ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17  6:32                           ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 13:27                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 19:29                             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17 21:15                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:31                                 ` Alan
2007-02-19 20:20                                   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:48                                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-19 21:50                                       ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:12                                         ` Michael Dreher
2007-02-17 21:21                               ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18  4:38                                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 15:40                       ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-16  9:12                   ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16  9:44                     ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-16 11:41                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-16  6:46               ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-15 19:27           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-16  1:24             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 22:21           ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  0:04             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16  0:37               ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  2:09                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16  2:12                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  4:00                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16  5:16                   ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  5:57                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15 22:42           ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-16  1:48             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17  4:03             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-17  4:19               ` Gene Heskett
     [not found]           ` <7b69d1470702151705h297c3b38g138eb0138b900aea@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-16  2:00             ` v j
2007-02-16  6:07               ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16  8:36               ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16 17:00               ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-16 17:52               ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-20 14:55               ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-16  0:10         ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16  0:18           ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16  0:37             ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16  1:58               ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16  0:58         ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 16:42           ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-15  6:15   ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  6:51     ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-15  6:23   ` Ben Nizette
2007-02-15  7:40     ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 20:56       ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:53       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 22:41         ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 23:20           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15  7:36   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15  8:04     ` v j
2007-02-15  8:13       ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15  8:17       ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-15  8:40         ` v j
2007-02-15 19:36           ` Jörn Engel
2007-02-15  8:24       ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 11:52       ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16  4:13       ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 13:32       ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 11:54   ` Mws
2007-02-15 12:51     ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-15 14:32       ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-15 14:54         ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-16  8:19         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16  9:25           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 15:33           ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16 15:58           ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 15:18   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-15 11:06 Ihar `Philips` Filipau
     [not found] <7OHci-7fx-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <7OHci-7fx-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7OJnQ-24B-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7OJQP-2VO-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 11:53       ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]   ` <7OI8n-fp-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7OIi9-tI-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7OS7S-7tW-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7OTx3-1tH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 23:40           ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found] <fa.GPbYGi2HYDPl2WlRgsq2dPbD6cM@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.5t0XkAtEpB2nDYFPJKUBce9BKFE@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]   ` <fa.upvZMIS42lj8Tbudh1OdnbDn+Ts@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]     ` <fa.821rWTmf8FgAMnDeO7b6yeUeXYg@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]       ` <fa.+3hIy95KSdtolNz5kNmm6qk4FU8@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-15 23:31         ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-16 15:29           ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-16 23:08             ` Robert Hancock
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-04-01 12:16 devzero

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