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From: Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Cc: Oleg Nesterov <oleg@tv-sign.ru>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Robin Holt <holt@sgi.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Chris Snook <csnook@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Jack Steiner <steiner@americas.sgi.com>
Subject: Re: init's children list is long and slows reaping children.
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:24:13 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <461D51FD.5010506@tmr.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1veg2r7hy.fsf@ebiederm.dsl.xmission.com>

Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> writes:
> 
>> As long as the original parent is preserved for getppid(). There are programs
>> out there which communicate between the parent and child with signals, and if
>> the original parent dies, it undesirable to have the child getppid() and start
>> sending signals to a program not expecting them. Invites undefined behavior.
> 
> Then the programs are broken.  getppid is defined to change if the process
> is reparented to init.
> 
The short answer is that kthreads don't do this so it doesn't matter.

But user programs are NOT broken, currently getppid returns either the 
original parent or init, and a program can identify init. Reparenting to 
another pid would not be easily noted, and as SUS notes, no values are 
reserved to error. So there's no way to check, and no neeed for 
kthreads, I was prematurely paranoid.

Presumably user processes will still be reparented to init so that's not 
an issue. Since there's no atomic signal_parent() the ppid could change 
between getppid() and signal(), but that's never actually been a problem 
AFAIK.

Related: Is there a benefit from having separate queues for original 
children of init and reparented (to init) tasks? Even in a server would 
there be enough to save anything?

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot


  reply	other threads:[~2007-04-11 21:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-04-05 19:51 init's children list is long and slows reaping children Robin Holt
2007-04-05 20:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-06  0:51   ` Chris Snook
2007-04-06  1:03     ` Chris Snook
2007-04-06  1:29     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-06  2:15       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 10:43         ` Robin Holt
2007-04-06 15:38           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 16:31             ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 17:32               ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 17:39                 ` Roland Dreier
2007-04-06 18:04                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 18:30                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 19:18                   ` [patch] sched: get rid of p->children use in show_task() Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 19:22                     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-10 13:48                   ` init's children list is long and slows reaping children Ingo Molnar
2007-04-10 13:38                     ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-10 15:00                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-10 15:16                       ` [PATCH] Only send pdeath_signal when getppid changes Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-10 16:37                         ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-10 17:41                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-10 17:48                             ` Roland McGrath
2007-04-11  3:17                               ` Albert Cahalan
2007-04-10 14:51                     ` init's children list is long and slows reaping children Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-10 15:06                       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-10 15:22                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-10 15:53                           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-10 16:17                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-11  6:20                             ` [patch] uninline remove/add_parent() APIs Ingo Molnar
2007-04-11  7:00                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-11 22:06                                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-12 10:45                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-12 22:50                                   ` Roland McGrath
2007-04-10 16:44                       ` init's children list is long and slows reaping children Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-11 19:55                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-11 20:17                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-11 21:24                             ` Bill Davidsen [this message]
2007-04-11 20:19                           ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 18:02               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 18:21               ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-06 18:56                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 19:16                   ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-06 19:19                     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 21:29                       ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-06 21:51                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-06 22:31                           ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-06 22:46                             ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-06 22:59                               ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-09  8:28                           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-09 18:09                             ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-09 19:28                               ` Kyle Moffett
2007-04-09 19:51                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-09 20:03                                   ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-10 15:12                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-10 19:17                                       ` Davide Libenzi
2007-04-09 20:00                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 16:41             ` Robin Holt
2007-04-09 17:37         ` Chris Snook
2007-04-06 18:05       ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-06 19:39         ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 22:38 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-06 22:51   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-06 23:37     ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-11  7:28       ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-10  0:23   ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-10  0:48     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-10  1:15       ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-10  6:53       ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10  9:42       ` Robin Holt
2007-04-10  1:59     ` Dave Jones
2007-04-10  2:30       ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-10  2:46         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-10  7:07           ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10 22:20             ` Ingo Oeser
2007-04-10  5:07         ` Alexey Dobriyan
2007-04-10  5:21           ` Dave Jones
2007-04-10  6:09         ` Torsten Kaiser
2007-04-10  7:08           ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10  7:05         ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10  7:37           ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-10  8:33             ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10  8:41               ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-10  8:48                 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10 22:35                   ` Ingo Oeser
2007-04-10 16:35           ` Matt Mackall
2007-04-10  7:44         ` Russell King
2007-04-10  8:16           ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-10  8:59           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-10  9:33             ` Jeff Garzik
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-04-06  8:42 Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06  9:10 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06  9:44   ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 15:45     ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 15:47       ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 17:16         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-06 17:27           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 17:31             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 17:34           ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 19:06             ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-04-06 19:15               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-06 19:21                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-04-06 21:04                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-04-06 21:07                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-04-06 19:36           ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 19:43             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 20:01               ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 20:21                 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-04-06 19:47             ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-06 19:59               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-07 20:31             ` Oleg Nesterov
2007-04-08  0:38               ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-08 15:46                 ` Oleg Nesterov

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