Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Satyam Sharma]

[ off the original topic, Cc: list trimmed ]

On 7/11/07, Nitin Gupta <nitingupta910@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>  #define LZO1X_MEM_COMPRESS     (16384 * sizeof(unsigned char *))
>  #define LZO1X_1_MEM_COMPRESS   LZO1X_MEM_COMPRESS
>
> -#define lzo1x_worst_compress(x) (x + (x / 64) + 16 + 3)
> +#define lzo1x_worst_compress(x) ((x) + ((x) / 16) + 64 + 3)
>
>  /* This requires 'workmem' of size LZO1X_1_MEM_COMPRESS */
>  int lzo1x_1_compress(const unsigned char *src, size_t src_len,

And yet another patch falls victim to format=flowed ...

I need some ideas here myself:

I don't want to subscribe from my university mail account -- I like
to keep important messages on server, and the account has a
100 MB or so limit that wouldn't survive a week of lkml traffic.

Which leaves Gmail, but Gmail has the flowed text disease (that
cannot be disabled) and although Gmail offers SMTP/POP, our evil
proxy/NAT setup here wouldn't let me make any use of it to access
it from some other MUA such as pine/mutt.

I use Paul Jackson's wonderful "sendpatchset" script (when sending
patches that start new threads), but it's frustrating not to be able to
reply to existing threads with patches from Gmail itself (from which I
have subscribed to lkml).

I suspect others must have come across this ... any suggestions?

Satyam

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Jesper Juhl]

On 11/07/07, Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com> wrote:
> [ off the original topic, Cc: list trimmed ]
>
> On 7/11/07, Nitin Gupta <nitingupta910@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >  #define LZO1X_MEM_COMPRESS     (16384 * sizeof(unsigned char *))
> >  #define LZO1X_1_MEM_COMPRESS   LZO1X_MEM_COMPRESS
> >
> > -#define lzo1x_worst_compress(x) (x + (x / 64) + 16 + 3)
> > +#define lzo1x_worst_compress(x) ((x) + ((x) / 16) + 64 + 3)
> >
> >  /* This requires 'workmem' of size LZO1X_1_MEM_COMPRESS */
> >  int lzo1x_1_compress(const unsigned char *src, size_t src_len,
>
> And yet another patch falls victim to format=flowed ...
>
> I need some ideas here myself:
>
> I don't want to subscribe from my university mail account -- I like
> to keep important messages on server, and the account has a
> 100 MB or so limit that wouldn't survive a week of lkml traffic.
>
> Which leaves Gmail, but Gmail has the flowed text disease (that
> cannot be disabled) and although Gmail offers SMTP/POP, our evil
> proxy/NAT setup here wouldn't let me make any use of it to access
> it from some other MUA such as pine/mutt.
>
> I use Paul Jackson's wonderful "sendpatchset" script (when sending
> patches that start new threads), but it's frustrating not to be able to
> reply to existing threads with patches from Gmail itself (from which I
> have subscribed to lkml).
>
> I suspect others must have come across this ... any suggestions?
>

1) talk to the administrators and convince them to allow you to use
gmails SMTP/POP feature with a different MUA so you don't have to use
the web interface.

2) If you have a box available at home (or elsewhere), use that to
relay mail through.

3) Use attachments for patches (sucks, but you may have to).


-- 
Jesper Juhl <jesper.juhl@gmail.com>
Don't top-post  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please      http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Gerb Stralko]

> 2) If you have a box available at home (or elsewhere), use that to
> relay mail through.
>
read linux mail from you gmail account. When you need to send a patch,
send it from a linux box using pine, but change the From to your gmail
account.   Like Jesper suggested works great!  Best of both worlds.

This link will help:
http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#gmail

Scroll down untill you see a yellow box section that say:
Gmail Tips 	    	
    * If you want to use the Gmail SMTP server for your outgoing
messages, I recommend that you create a Pine Role that includes these
ACTIONS:

> 3) Use attachments for patches (sucks, but you may have to).
>
Yes attachments suck, no one will read them and hence no will merge
them upstream for you.


let me know if you have any question.

-Jerry

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Satyam Sharma]

Hi,

On 7/11/07, Gerb Stralko <gerb.stralko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2) If you have a box available at home (or elsewhere), use that to
> > relay mail through.
> >
> read linux mail from you gmail account. When you need to send a patch,
> send it from a linux box using pine, but change the From to your gmail
> account.   Like Jesper suggested works great!  Best of both worlds.

Just changing the "From:" in pine (configured for my other account)
wouldn't solve the problem. I'd have to first forward the original mail
to my other account and/or copy it manually, which I'd like to avoid ...

> This link will help:
> http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#gmail
>
> Scroll down untill you see a yellow box section that say:
> Gmail Tips
>     * If you want to use the Gmail SMTP server for your outgoing
> messages, I recommend that you create a Pine Role that includes these
> ACTIONS:

Ok, I read through the relevant bits of that page, thanks. My box
here doesn't resolve smtp.gmail.com / pop.gmail.com and there
could be firewalling issues on top of that, so I'm not too hopeful ...
but I'll give it a try definitely.

Thanks,
Satyam

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Satyam Sharma]

On 7/11/07, Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 7/11/07, Gerb Stralko <gerb.stralko@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > This link will help:
> > http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#gmail
> >
> > Scroll down untill you see a yellow box section that say:
> > Gmail Tips
> >     * If you want to use the Gmail SMTP server for your outgoing
> > messages, I recommend that you create a Pine Role that includes these
> > ACTIONS:
>
> Ok, I read through the relevant bits of that page, thanks. My box
> here doesn't resolve smtp.gmail.com / pop.gmail.com and there
> could be firewalling issues on top of that, so I'm not too hopeful ...
> but I'll give it a try definitely.

I tried adding the IP address for {smtp,pop}.gmail.com directly to
my /etc/hosts, finally just substituted with the IP address itself in
pine (as suggested on that link), but couldn't connect. I should've
expected, with the evil NAT setup that I mentioned earlier ... all
boxes here have private addresses (only) assigned to them, and
connect to the outside world via a (squid/web) proxy ... Ick.
[The proxy does allow CONNECT so some hope is left still.]

Thanks for suggestions,

Satyam

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Gerb Stralko]

do you have ssh access?  if so, setup a linux machine outside of this
evil network and ssh into it.  ssh is pretty configurable to get
around firewalls/nats.

enjoy

On 7/11/07, Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/11/07, Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 7/11/07, Gerb Stralko <gerb.stralko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> > > This link will help:
> > > http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/#gmail
> > >
> > > Scroll down untill you see a yellow box section that say:
> > > Gmail Tips
> > >     * If you want to use the Gmail SMTP server for your outgoing
> > > messages, I recommend that you create a Pine Role that includes these
> > > ACTIONS:
> >
> > Ok, I read through the relevant bits of that page, thanks. My box
> > here doesn't resolve smtp.gmail.com / pop.gmail.com and there
> > could be firewalling issues on top of that, so I'm not too hopeful ...
> > but I'll give it a try definitely.
>
> I tried adding the IP address for {smtp,pop}.gmail.com directly to
> my /etc/hosts, finally just substituted with the IP address itself in
> pine (as suggested on that link), but couldn't connect. I should've
> expected, with the evil NAT setup that I mentioned earlier ... all
> boxes here have private addresses (only) assigned to them, and
> connect to the outside world via a (squid/web) proxy ... Ick.
> [The proxy does allow CONNECT so some hope is left still.]
>
> Thanks for suggestions,
>
> Satyam
>

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Jasper Spaans]

On 7/11/07, Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com> wrote:

> And yet another patch falls victim to format=flowed ...
>
> I need some ideas here myself:
>
> I don't want to subscribe from my university mail account -- I like
> to keep important messages on server, and the account has a
> 100 MB or so limit that wouldn't survive a week of lkml traffic.
> [..]
> I suspect others must have come across this ... any suggestions?

Use lkml.org's fabulastic email forward button  to forward mails to
your university account and reply from there?

Cheers,
-- 
Jasper Spaans                                       http://jsp.vs19.net/

               This line was last modified 0 seconds ago.

Re: Gmail and flowed text

[Sergei Organov]

"Satyam Sharma" <satyam.sharma@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> And yet another patch falls victim to format=flowed ...
>
> I need some ideas here myself:
>
> I don't want to subscribe from my university mail account -- I like
> to keep important messages on server, and the account has a
> 100 MB or so limit that wouldn't survive a week of lkml traffic.
>
> Which leaves Gmail,

You may also try free gmane service, <http://www.gmane.org>, that is
mail-to-news gateway that has "gmane.linux.kernel" news group that is a
mirror of lkml.

-- 
Sergei.

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Christoph Hellwig]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2007 at 07:06:23PM +0530, Satyam Sharma wrote:
> Which leaves Gmail, but Gmail has the flowed text disease (that
> cannot be disabled) and although Gmail offers SMTP/POP, our evil
> proxy/NAT setup here wouldn't let me make any use of it to access
> it from some other MUA such as pine/mutt.

Given the amount of google people here maybe someone can get this
piece of junk called gmail fixed?  If google claims they're not
evil they should stop sending broken patches around..

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Alistair John Strachan]

On Wednesday 11 July 2007 16:21:44 Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2007 at 07:06:23PM +0530, Satyam Sharma wrote:
> > Which leaves Gmail, but Gmail has the flowed text disease (that
> > cannot be disabled) and although Gmail offers SMTP/POP, our evil
> > proxy/NAT setup here wouldn't let me make any use of it to access
> > it from some other MUA such as pine/mutt.
>
> Given the amount of google people here maybe someone can get this
> piece of junk called gmail fixed?  If google claims they're not
> evil they should stop sending broken patches around..

It'd be nice if they stopped mangling headers too (spaces->tabs).

-- 
Cheers,
Alistair.

137/1 Warrender Park Road, Edinburgh, UK.

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Dave Young]

>On 7/11/07, Alistair John Strachan <alistair@devzero.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 July 2007 16:21:44 Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 11, 2007 at 07:06:23PM +0530, Satyam Sharma wrote:
> > > Which leaves Gmail, but Gmail has the flowed text disease (that
> > > cannot be disabled) and although Gmail offers SMTP/POP, our evil
> > > proxy/NAT setup here wouldn't let me make any use of it to access
> > > it from some other MUA such as pine/mutt.
> >
> > Given the amount of google people here maybe someone can get this
> > piece of junk called gmail fixed?  If google claims they're not
> > evil they should stop sending broken patches around..
>
> It'd be nice if they stopped mangling headers too (spaces->tabs).
>
Yes, it's boring for gmail users, I generally read messages from gmail
web pages, and send patches via mutt with ssmtp.
1. write ~/.mutt/ssmpt.conf as follows:
mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:587
UseSTARTTLS=YES
UseTLS=YES
AuthUser=yourid@gmail.com
AuthPass=***
FromLineOverride=YES

2. write ~/.mutt/ssmpt script:
#!/bin/sh
/usr/sbin/ssmtp -C ~/.mutt/ssmtp.conf $@

3.add the follow line to ~/.mutt/muttrc
set sendmail="~/.mutt/ssmtp"

Regards
dave

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Tilman Schmidt]

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Satyam Sharma schrieb:
> And yet another patch falls victim to format=flowed ...
> 
> I need some ideas here myself:
> 
> I don't want to subscribe from my university mail account [...]
> Which leaves Gmail, [...]

Other E-mail providers do exist, some of them even free.

> I suspect others must have come across this ... any suggestions?

Get a real E-mail account. :-)

Seriously: after years of hassles with freemailers, I finally
decided that E-mail is so important for me it's worth spending
a small yearly amount. Never regretted the step.

HTH
Tilman

-- 
Tilman Schmidt                    E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc
Bonn, Germany
Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits.
Ungeöffnet mindestens haltbar bis: (siehe Rückseite)


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Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Paolo Ciarrocchi]

On 7/13/07, Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc> wrote:
> Satyam Sharma schrieb:
> > And yet another patch falls victim to format=flowed ...
> >
> > I need some ideas here myself:
> >
> > I don't want to subscribe from my university mail account [...]
> > Which leaves Gmail, [...]
>
> Other E-mail providers do exist, some of them even free.
>
> > I suspect others must have come across this ... any suggestions?
>
> Get a real E-mail account. :-)
>
> Seriously: after years of hassles with freemailers, I finally
> decided that E-mail is so important for me it's worth spending
> a small yearly amount. Never regretted the step.

Sorry for suddently jumping into the discussion, my understanding is
that all the problems with Gmail are related to the web interface, if
you don't use it, or you use it only to read messages/sent messages
(no patches), everything is fine.

Am I correct?


-- 
Paolo
"Tutto cio' che merita di essere fatto,merita di essere fatto bene"
Philip Stanhope IV conte di Chesterfield

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Nitin Gupta]

On 7/13/07, Paolo Ciarrocchi <paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/13/07, Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc> wrote:
> > Satyam Sharma schrieb:

>
> Sorry for suddently jumping into the discussion, my understanding is
> that all the problems with Gmail are related to the web interface, if
> you don't use it, or you use it only to read messages/sent messages
> (no patches), everything is fine.
>
> Am I correct?

Exactly! :)

- Nitin

Re: Gmail and flowed text (was Re: Correction to LZO1X)

[Rene Herman]

On 07/13/2007 11:42 AM, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:

> On 7/13/07, Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc> wrote:

>> Get a real E-mail account. :-)
>>
>> Seriously: after years of hassles with freemailers, I finally
>> decided that E-mail is so important for me it's worth spending
>> a small yearly amount. Never regretted the step.
> 
> Sorry for suddently jumping into the discussion, my understanding is
> that all the problems with Gmail are related to the web interface, if
> you don't use it, or you use it only to read messages/sent messages
> (no patches), everything is fine.
> 
> Am I correct?

No, definitely not. Gmail is a lost cause.

For example, I get moderation requests for a mailing lists that include a
copy of the message and gmail's mandatory spamfilter just cannot be taught
that I _do_ want to see those moderation requests, however it may feel about
the included message. I have much better spam-filtering at home, since I can
train it to my personal usage patterns. Can't switch it off though...

As another example, also if you only use the SMTP/POP access, gmail filters
out your own posts to mailing lists, overriding whatever "send back to me"
preference you may have set in the mailing list configuration.

It also does mandatory "duplicate" filtering where a duplicate is defined as
any message that was delivered to you as part of a mailing list, again
overriding personal preferences the user has set in the mailing list
configuration and personally having caused me to miss messages addressed to 
me. Daddy gmail knows best...

If you are emailing to destinations that can be made to let through the SPF
neutral result gmail sends back if you use a different SMTP server (this was
a problem with osdl.org for a short while; I couldn't reach @osdl.org
addresses anymore) and _have_ a different SMTP server that'll allow you to
post with an @gmail.com from address, using gmail as a forwarding-only 
address sort of works.

You'll have to login frequently to the web-interface anyway to go through
its spam folder fishing out all the non-spam and will have to suffer
sometimes getting and sometimes not getting back your own list mail (I
completely lost sight of the logic there) though and I'm close to just
giving up and telling gmail where to stick its mandatory crap.

A simple forwarding address can be had anywhere and most won't keep a, 
privacy sensitive but again mandatory, archive of all mail you received in 
the "Trash" folder until you manually login and empty that as well.

Gmail is all about not letting you make your own choices. Which probably
accounts for its success -- it's a goal shared by the most successful
companies in IT it seems.

Rene.