Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<::.. Teresa_II ..::>]

Hi all,


first of all i am not sure if its scheduler issue. But i didn't found
anything about that in google related to something else.

So i tried 2.6.22.1 kernel with new cfs scheduler v19.1 from Ingo page.
Previous i used 2.6.22-ck1.

After 24 hours running i get strange behavior in Xorg. It act slower
with my special keys, like SHIFT, or CTRL. So if i hold SHIFT and press
")" and than will press enter, i release SHIIFT and press ENTER it
doesn't create new line. Even if i start write a Sentence or word with
"SHIFTed" char it makes next char in high case also. 
Like this: "HAllo" even if i type "Hallo".

It's extremely unusable.

It doesn't happen if i am on other kernel.

I am ready to provide any requested information to find issue.
If its not kernel related thing - i am very sorry, i just don't know
where to start to trace whats wrong.

I am on gentoo and use latest xorg server. Keyboard driver is "KBD".
Mouse use "evdev" driver.

-- 
Teresa Kalitowska
jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Michal Piotrowski]

Hi,

On 30/07/07, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> <teresa@kvitka.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> first of all i am not sure if its scheduler issue. But i didn't found
> anything about that in google related to something else.
>
> So i tried 2.6.22.1 kernel with new cfs scheduler v19.1 from Ingo page.
> Previous i used 2.6.22-ck1.
>
> After 24 hours running i get strange behavior in Xorg. It act slower
> with my special keys, like SHIFT, or CTRL. So if i hold SHIFT and press
> ")" and than will press enter, i release SHIIFT and press ENTER it
> doesn't create new line. Even if i start write a Sentence or word with
> "SHIFTed" char it makes next char in high case also.
> Like this: "HAllo" even if i type "Hallo".
>
> It's extremely unusable.
>
> It doesn't happen if i am on other kernel.
>
> I am ready to provide any requested information to find issue.
> If its not kernel related thing - i am very sorry, i just don't know
> where to start to trace whats wrong.
>
> I am on gentoo and use latest xorg server. Keyboard driver is "KBD".
> Mouse use "evdev" driver.

Ingo, can you take a look at this?

>
> --
> Teresa Kalitowska
> jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Regards,
Michal

-- 
LOG
http://www.stardust.webpages.pl/log/

Re: [ck] Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<::.. Teresa_II ..::>]

У пн, 2007-07-30 у 22:25 +0200, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> пише:


> I am ready to provide any requested information to find issue.

Interesting Thing is that this seems to happen only on system idle. If
system is under load it behave correct.
And sometimes it doesn't appear even if system is idle.
Now as i write this email it works mostly like it should. Yesterday i
was much worse. I didn't rebooted since this time. Application set i run
is mostly the same for whole time.
So any idea where to start to look ?

Also how long SHIFT, or CTRL was pressed have matter. Long pressed
special button cause longer release time.
Sorry if its little bit bad described. I don't know how better to
explain how it looks.

-- 
Teresa Kalitowska
jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Re: [ck] Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<::.. Teresa_II ..::>]

У пн, 2007-07-30 у 22:25 +0200, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> пише:


Ok, hier is small testing:
I started gcc emerge. System load is between 1.47 and 1.61
I use SMP enabled 2.6.22.1-cfs-v19.1 kernel on ADM64 X2.

In gnome-terminal window i just type fast "d" and until i count 1,2 i
hold SHIFT, than i release SHIFT, count 1,2 and than press SHIFT again.
I cound 1,2,1,2,1,2 as i type "d" button. That's the string i get:

DDDDDDDdDDDddDDddDDddDDDdDDDdDDDdDDDddDDddDDDdDDDddDDDdDDDdDDDDDDDdDDDDDDDDDDDdDDD

Its anyway different as expected.

I don't have better idea how to show what my problem is.

-- 
Teresa Kalitowska
jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Re: [ck] Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Ingo Molnar]

* <::.. Teresa_II ..::> <teresa@kvitka.net> wrote:

> У пн, 2007-07-30 у 22:25 +0200, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> пише:
> 
> Ok, hier is small testing: I started gcc emerge. System load is 
> between 1.47 and 1.61 I use SMP enabled 2.6.22.1-cfs-v19.1 kernel on 
> ADM64 X2.
> 
> In gnome-terminal window i just type fast "d" and until i count 1,2 i 
> hold SHIFT, than i release SHIFT, count 1,2 and than press SHIFT 
> again. I cound 1,2,1,2,1,2 as i type "d" button. That's the string i 
> get:

hm, do you have CONFIG_NO_HZ=y? If yes, could you disable it? Plus can 
you see the same problem on v2.6.23-rc1 as well (if that kernel boots 
fine for you).

	Ingo

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 07/30/2007 10:25 PM, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> wrote:

> first of all i am not sure if its scheduler issue. But i didn't found
> anything about that in google related to something else.
> 
> So i tried 2.6.22.1 kernel with new cfs scheduler v19.1 from Ingo page.
> Previous i used 2.6.22-ck1.
> 
> After 24 hours running i get strange behavior in Xorg. It act slower
> with my special keys, like SHIFT, or CTRL. So if i hold SHIFT and press
> ")" and than will press enter, i release SHIIFT and press ENTER it
> doesn't create new line. Even if i start write a Sentence or word with
> "SHIFTed" char it makes next char in high case also. 
> Like this: "HAllo" even if i type "Hallo".

For a few days now I have been experiencing a "stuck delete" key while 
reading mail -- I run through the mail with "delete" and every once in a 
while it just keeps on deleting messages while I've already released the 
delete key and was trying to read the next message.

Regular unpatched 2.6.22.1 though and I've recently changed too many things 
to be certain of anything. My X is the modular X.org 1.3.0 since not long, 
and the mailer showing the problem is Thunderbird 2.0.0.5, recently switched 
from 1.5.0.12. The problem was on my "I'll get to it" list but seems this 
could be a good thread to report it into. PS/2 keyboard...

> It's extremely unusable.
> 
> It doesn't happen if i am on other kernel.

Very very sure?

> I am ready to provide any requested information to find issue. If its not
> kernel related thing - i am very sorry, i just don't know where to start
> to trace whats wrong.
> 
> I am on gentoo and use latest xorg server. Keyboard driver is "KBD". 
> Mouse use "evdev" driver.

Rene.

Re: [ck] Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<::.. Teresa_II ..::>]

У вт, 2007-07-31 у 16:27 +0200, Ingo Molnar пише:
> > In gnome-terminal window i just type fast "d" and until i count 1,2 i 
> > hold SHIFT, than i release SHIFT, count 1,2 and than press SHIFT 
> > again. I cound 1,2,1,2,1,2 as i type "d" button. That's the string i 
> > get:
> 
> hm, do you have CONFIG_NO_HZ=y? If yes, could you disable it? Plus can 
> you see the same problem on v2.6.23-rc1 as well (if that kernel boots 
> fine for you).

# zcat /proc/config.gz |grep "_HZ"
# CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_250 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set
CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
CONFIG_HZ=1000

Hmm, i will try 2.6.23-rc1 soon.

-- 
Teresa Kalitowska
jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Ingo Molnar]

* Michal Piotrowski <michal.k.k.piotrowski@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 30/07/07, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> <teresa@kvitka.net> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > first of all i am not sure if its scheduler issue. But i didn't found
> > anything about that in google related to something else.
> >
> > So i tried 2.6.22.1 kernel with new cfs scheduler v19.1 from Ingo page.
> > Previous i used 2.6.22-ck1.
> >
> > After 24 hours running i get strange behavior in Xorg. It act slower
> > with my special keys, like SHIFT, or CTRL. So if i hold SHIFT and press
> > ")" and than will press enter, i release SHIIFT and press ENTER it
> > doesn't create new line. Even if i start write a Sentence or word with
> > "SHIFTed" char it makes next char in high case also.
> > Like this: "HAllo" even if i type "Hallo".
> >
> > It's extremely unusable.
> >
> > It doesn't happen if i am on other kernel.
> >
> > I am ready to provide any requested information to find issue.
> > If its not kernel related thing - i am very sorry, i just don't know
> > where to start to trace whats wrong.
> >
> > I am on gentoo and use latest xorg server. Keyboard driver is "KBD".
> > Mouse use "evdev" driver.
> 
> Ingo, can you take a look at this?

another reaction below in this thread reported kbd problems in vanilla 
2.6.22.1 as well. What is the X versions, etc.? Does the problem go away 
if the X kbd driver selection is tweaked to a simpler model, say:

 Section "InputDevice"
         Identifier  "Keyboard0"
         Driver      "kbd"
         Option      "XkbModel" "pc105"
         Option      "XkbLayout" "us"
         Option      "XkbVariant" "basic"
 EndSection

	Ingo

----------------------->

From: Rene Herman <rene.herman@gmail.com>

On 07/30/2007 10:25 PM, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> wrote:

> first of all i am not sure if its scheduler issue. But i didn't found
> anything about that in google related to something else.
> 
> So i tried 2.6.22.1 kernel with new cfs scheduler v19.1 from Ingo page.
> Previous i used 2.6.22-ck1.
> 
> After 24 hours running i get strange behavior in Xorg. It act slower
> with my special keys, like SHIFT, or CTRL. So if i hold SHIFT and press
> ")" and than will press enter, i release SHIIFT and press ENTER it
> doesn't create new line. Even if i start write a Sentence or word with
> "SHIFTed" char it makes next char in high case also. 
> Like this: "HAllo" even if i type "Hallo".

For a few days now I have been experiencing a "stuck delete" key while 
reading mail -- I run through the mail with "delete" and every once in a 
while it just keeps on deleting messages while I've already released the 
delete key and was trying to read the next message.

Regular unpatched 2.6.22.1 though and I've recently changed too many things 
to be certain of anything. My X is the modular X.org 1.3.0 since not long, 
and the mailer showing the problem is Thunderbird 2.0.0.5, recently switched 
from 1.5.0.12. The problem was on my "I'll get to it" list but seems this 
could be a good thread to report it into. PS/2 keyboard...

> It's extremely unusable.
> 
> It doesn't happen if i am on other kernel.

Very very sure?

> I am ready to provide any requested information to find issue. If its not
> kernel related thing - i am very sorry, i just don't know where to start
> to trace whats wrong.
> 
> I am on gentoo and use latest xorg server. Keyboard driver is "KBD". 
> Mouse use "evdev" driver.

Rene.


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Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/01/2007 01:31 PM, Andi Kleen wrote:

> Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> writes:

>> another reaction below in this thread reported kbd problems in vanilla 
>> 2.6.22.1 as well. What is the X versions, etc.? Does the problem go away 
>> if the X kbd driver selection is tweaked to a simpler model, say:
> 
> Or perhaps just test with CFS reverted? It really sounds more like something
> independent from the scheduler. Perhaps someone could put a CFS-revert-for-testing patch
> on ftp somewhere. It's only a few git changesets so shouldn't be too difficult to
> do.

Teresa was already using 2.6.22.1, with CFS (v19.1) patched in, so reverting 
that would be a matter of patching it out again. She said she wasn't seeing 
trouble on other kernels though.

I was the one who also saw keyboard trouble on 2.6.22.1 without CFS by the 
way -- and haven't (yet) seen any anymore since patching _in_ CFS v19.1...

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Andi Kleen]

Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> writes:
> 
> another reaction below in this thread reported kbd problems in vanilla 
> 2.6.22.1 as well. What is the X versions, etc.? Does the problem go away 
> if the X kbd driver selection is tweaked to a simpler model, say:

Or perhaps just test with CFS reverted? It really sounds more like something
independent from the scheduler. Perhaps someone could put a CFS-revert-for-testing patch
on ftp somewhere. It's only a few git changesets so shouldn't be too difficult to
do.

-Andi

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Wed, August 1, 2007 13:01, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 08/01/2007 01:31 PM, Andi Kleen wrote:
>
>> Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> writes:
>
>>> another reaction below in this thread reported kbd problems in vanilla
>>> 2.6.22.1 as well. What is the X versions, etc.? Does the problem go away
>>> if the X kbd driver selection is tweaked to a simpler model, say:
>>
>> Or perhaps just test with CFS reverted? It really sounds more like something
>> independent from the scheduler. Perhaps someone could put a CFS-revert-for-testing patch
>> on ftp somewhere. It's only a few git changesets so shouldn't be too difficult to
>> do.
>
> Teresa was already using 2.6.22.1, with CFS (v19.1) patched in, so reverting
> that would be a matter of patching it out again. She said she wasn't seeing
> trouble on other kernels though.
>
> I was the one who also saw keyboard trouble on 2.6.22.1 without CFS by the
> way -- and haven't (yet) seen any anymore since patching _in_ CFS v19.1...

Could the people who had or have keyboard problems try out Dmitry's
input locking patches, and see if those help: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/7/24/17
And if it does, report it to him, either there or here after CCing him.

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/01/2007 02:34 PM, Indan Zupancic wrote:

> On Wed, August 1, 2007 13:01, Rene Herman wrote:

>> Teresa was already using 2.6.22.1, with CFS (v19.1) patched in, so reverting
>> that would be a matter of patching it out again. She said she wasn't seeing
>> trouble on other kernels though.
>>
>> I was the one who also saw keyboard trouble on 2.6.22.1 without CFS by the
>> way -- and haven't (yet) seen any anymore since patching _in_ CFS v19.1...
> 
> Could the people who had or have keyboard problems try out Dmitry's
> input locking patches, and see if those help: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/7/24/17
> And if it does, report it to him, either there or here after CCing him.

I'm having trouble reproducing this at will -- it sounded as though Teresa 
had less trouble at least originally. Teresa?

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Wed, August 1, 2007 14:50, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 08/01/2007 02:34 PM, Indan Zupancic wrote:
>
>> On Wed, August 1, 2007 13:01, Rene Herman wrote:
>
>>> Teresa was already using 2.6.22.1, with CFS (v19.1) patched in, so reverting
>>> that would be a matter of patching it out again. She said she wasn't seeing
>>> trouble on other kernels though.
>>>
>>> I was the one who also saw keyboard trouble on 2.6.22.1 without CFS by the
>>> way -- and haven't (yet) seen any anymore since patching _in_ CFS v19.1...
>>
>> Could the people who had or have keyboard problems try out Dmitry's
>> input locking patches, and see if those help: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/7/24/17
>> And if it does, report it to him, either there or here after CCing him.
>
> I'm having trouble reproducing this at will -- it sounded as though Teresa
> had less trouble at least originally. Teresa?

Same here, so testing is a pain. I was more thinking about running a patched
version for a day or longer and see if it happened or not. For me it happened
irregularly, but definitely a few times a day.

(It might help if people report what they're using. So, for what it's worth, I'm
using a PS/2 keyboard with xorg 1.2.0 with the "keyboard" driver.)

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/01/2007 03:07 PM, Indan Zupancic wrote:

> On Wed, August 1, 2007 14:50, Rene Herman wrote:

>> On 08/01/2007 02:34 PM, Indan Zupancic wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, August 1, 2007 13:01, Rene Herman wrote:
>>>> Teresa was already using 2.6.22.1, with CFS (v19.1) patched in, so reverting
>>>> that would be a matter of patching it out again. She said she wasn't seeing
>>>> trouble on other kernels though.
>>>>
>>>> I was the one who also saw keyboard trouble on 2.6.22.1 without CFS by the
>>>> way -- and haven't (yet) seen any anymore since patching _in_ CFS v19.1...
>>> Could the people who had or have keyboard problems try out Dmitry's
>>> input locking patches, and see if those help: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/7/24/17
>>> And if it does, report it to him, either there or here after CCing him.
>> I'm having trouble reproducing this at will -- it sounded as though Teresa
>> had less trouble at least originally. Teresa?
> 
> Same here, so testing is a pain. I was more thinking about running a patched
> version for a day or longer and see if it happened or not. For me it happened
> irregularly, but definitely a few times a day.
> 
> (It might help if people report what they're using. So, for what it's worth, I'm
> using a PS/2 keyboard with xorg 1.2.0 with the "keyboard" driver.)

PS/2 keyboard, X.org 1.3.0 (version is at the top of /var/log/Xorg.0.log, or 
wherever your distribution puts that log), and this xkb config (in 
/etc/X11/xorg.conf):

Section "InputDevice"
         Identifier      "Keyboard0"
         Driver          "kbd"
         Option          "XkbModel"      "pc104"
         Option          "XkbLayout"     "us"
         Option          "XkbVariant"    "euro"
         Option          "XkbOptions"    "compose:rctrl"
EndSection

(you can forget that XkbVariant -- it's not yet in most distributions).

Problem as observed here consists of a sporadically stuck delete key in 
Thunderbird 2.0.0.5, using kernel 2.6.22.1 vanilla -- not yet observed using 
2.6.22.1-cfs-v19.1

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<:::.. TeresaII ..:::>]

Indan Zupancic wrote:
>> I'm having trouble reproducing this at will -- it sounded as though Teresa
>> had less trouble at least originally. Teresa?

I am at work actually, so i cant test anything. End of this week i got 
to vacation, so i possibly can return testing in 1 month again.

> Same here, so testing is a pain. I was more thinking about running a patched
> version for a day or longer and see if it happened or not. For me it happened
> irregularly, but definitely a few times a day.

Problem is, that i can't reproduce it after last reboot.
Can this be different on each reboot ? Any idea ?

About another kernel: i only had -ck kernels since last year or more, i 
can remember i had same behavier atleast 6 month ago, or maybe more. But 
it wasn't that hard and it dissapiered self after some time.

Now on first run of 2.6.22.1-cfs-v19.1 i got it again. And realy bad. It 
was even very hard to write report mail. I did reboot, day after that it 
was back, but not that hard. And now rebooted yesterday and cant 
reproduce it at all.

> (It might help if people report what they're using. So, for what it's worth, I'm
> using a PS/2 keyboard with xorg 1.2.0 with the "keyboard" driver.)

PS/2 keybord with latest xorg from gentoo ~amd64 here.

I use plaine settings for xorg, like Ingo told me to try.

-- 
Teresa

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/01/2007 03:33 PM, <:::.. TeresaII ..:::> wrote:

> Problem is, that i can't reproduce it after last reboot.
> Can this be different on each reboot ? Any idea ?
> 
> About another kernel: i only had -ck kernels since last year or more, i 
> can remember i had same behavier atleast 6 month ago, or maybe more. But 
> it wasn't that hard and it dissapiered self after some time.

Hmm.

> Now on first run of 2.6.22.1-cfs-v19.1 i got it again. And realy bad. It 
> was even very hard to write report mail.

I notice by the way that you are also using Thunderbird 2.0 -- that was my 
own suspect; I had just switched from Thunderbird 1.5.

> I did reboot, day after that it was back, but not that hard. And now
> rebooted yesterday and cant reproduce it at all.

I believe that at least for now we can safely remove this from any list of 
possible CFS regresssions. I'll sit on it and see what I can find out 
when/if my stuck delete happens again.

Indan -- under what circumstances/programs did you experience what?

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<::.. Teresa_II ..::>]

У ср, 2007-08-01 у 15:58 +0200, Rene Herman пише:
> I notice by the way that you are also using Thunderbird 2.0 -- that was my 
> own suspect; I had just switched from Thunderbird 1.5.

I was at work, on windows maschine. At home, where my linux maschine is
running i use evolution. But that have nothing to do with that.

I also doesnt have any "Backspace" keys stoked. Problem i discovered is
only with SHIFT/CTRL and some times "Right" Buttons.

Issue with "right" ("->") button is realy funny. If you type this button
fast enough it works like double pressed. And if you type it fast few
times (with releasing it) it looks same like if button would be never
released. It doesn't happend with "left"("<-") button :)

> > I did reboot, day after that it was back, but not that hard. And now
> > rebooted yesterday and cant reproduce it at all.
> 
> I believe that at least for now we can safely remove this from any list of 
> possible CFS regresssions. I'll sit on it and see what I can find out 
> when/if my stuck delete happens again.

As i sad. I wasn't sure if its kernel related at all, it just was worse
first time i booted cfs-v19.1 patch. Now i cant reproduce it even
anymore :)

Maybe thats xorg bug. Or maybe its different on booting.
Anyway HDD IO or CPU usage or System Load doesn't seems to have
influence on it.

-- 
Teresa Kalitowska
jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Re: [ck] Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Matthew Hawkins]

On 8/2/07, <::.. Teresa_II ..::> <teresa@kvitka.net> wrote:
> As i sad. I wasn't sure if its kernel related at all, it just was worse
> first time i booted cfs-v19.1 patch. Now i cant reproduce it even
> anymore :)

Hi Teresa,

Are you sure its not just a setting in Gnome/KDE for accessibility?
That tends to do crazy things like making control keys sticky...

-- 
Matt

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Wed, August 1, 2007 15:58, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 08/01/2007 03:33 PM, <:::.. TeresaII ..:::> wrote:
>
>> Problem is, that i can't reproduce it after last reboot.
>> Can this be different on each reboot ? Any idea ?
>>
>> About another kernel: i only had -ck kernels since last year or more, i
>> can remember i had same behavier atleast 6 month ago, or maybe more. But
>> it wasn't that hard and it dissapiered self after some time.
>
> Hmm.
>
>> Now on first run of 2.6.22.1-cfs-v19.1 i got it again. And realy bad. It
>> was even very hard to write report mail.
>
> I notice by the way that you are also using Thunderbird 2.0 -- that was my
> own suspect; I had just switched from Thunderbird 1.5.
>
>> I did reboot, day after that it was back, but not that hard. And now
>> rebooted yesterday and cant reproduce it at all.
>
> I believe that at least for now we can safely remove this from any list of
> possible CFS regresssions. I'll sit on it and see what I can find out
> when/if my stuck delete happens again.
>
> Indan -- under what circumstances/programs did you experience what?

Different programs, different keys "stuck", so hard to tell. The amount
the pressed key is repeated differs too, from double to hundreds.

As an apparently separate problem my mouse warps once in a while too,
and that's not totally fixed yet, neither with that locking patch. Throw in
that two of my USB ports stopped working after a rare power outage, I
didn't totally trust my hardware any more, hence my initial reluctance to
report these problems.

We could have independent problems with more or less the same symptoms,
at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and if you and Ingo
only experience a stuck delete key, it might be something else.

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Ingo Molnar]

* Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:

> We could have independent problems with more or less the same 
> symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and if 
> you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be something 
> else.

i experienced nothing in this area so far - if i experienced anything of 
the likes it would be long fixed! =B-)

	Ingo

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/01/2007 05:09 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:

> * Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:
> 
>> We could have independent problems with more or less the same 
>> symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and if 
>> you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be something 
>> else.
> 
> i experienced nothing in this area so far - if i experienced anything of 
> the likes it would be long fixed! =B-)

Show-off...

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/01/2007 05:20 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:

> * Rene Herman <rene.herman@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 08/01/2007 05:09 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>>
>>> * Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We could have independent problems with more or less the same 
>>>> symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and if 
>>>> you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be something 
>>>> else.
>>> i experienced nothing in this area so far - if i experienced anything of 
>>> the likes it would be long fixed! =B-)
>> Show-off...
> 
> ok, gotta qualify that with: '... and if it were easily reproducible and 
> if the bug was in my code'. Much less of a show-off i guess? :)

Much better indeed :-) Haven't hit the problem yet today...

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Ingo Molnar]

* Rene Herman <rene.herman@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 08/01/2007 05:09 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> >* Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:
> >
> >>We could have independent problems with more or less the same 
> >>symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and if 
> >>you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be something 
> >>else.
> >
> >i experienced nothing in this area so far - if i experienced anything of 
> >the likes it would be long fixed! =B-)
> 
> Show-off...

ok, gotta qualify that with: '... and if it were easily reproducible and 
if the bug was in my code'. Much less of a show-off i guess? :)

	Ingo

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Wed, August 1, 2007 17:09, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> * Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:
>
>> We could have independent problems with more or less the same
>> symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and if
>> you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be something
>> else.
>
> i experienced nothing in this area so far - if i experienced anything of
> the likes it would be long fixed! =B-)

Ah, indeed, you appended Rene's email without too many new lines,
so I thought your wrote it (http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/8/1/4).

All right, how would you debug it? Give us some insight in how to solve
hard to trigger, happens at most only a few times a day, annoying input
bug? I thought the mouse warping was fixed after 23-rc1 and that input
locking patch, but alas, the third day it happened again.

I would be happy just to know if it's bad hardware or a software bug,
I don't ask for too much, do I?

Greetings,

Indan

Re: [ck] Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[<::.. Teresa_II ..::>]

У чт, 2007-08-02 у 01:00 +1000, Matthew Hawkins пише:

> Are you sure its not just a setting in Gnome/KDE for accessibility?
> That tends to do crazy things like making control keys sticky...

Yes, i use gnome, and all keyboard layouts are set in gnome, also group
switching for layouts. But accessibility is switched completely off.

-- 
Teresa Kalitowska
jid: teresa@kvitka.net

Re: [ck] Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Sébastien Dugué]

  Hi all,

  just a datapoint FWIW

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:53:32 +0200 "<::.. Teresa_II ..::>" <teresa@kvitka.net> wrote:

> У чт, 2007-08-02 у 01:00 +1000, Matthew Hawkins пише:
> 
> > Are you sure its not just a setting in Gnome/KDE for accessibility?
> > That tends to do crazy things like making control keys sticky...
> 
> Yes, i use gnome, and all keyboard layouts are set in gnome, also group
> switching for layouts. But accessibility is switched completely off.
> 

  This reminds me I had something similar happening about a year or so ago
running with Debian's unstable xorg and gnome.

  The keys would stick for a short time (no, no coffee spilled on the keyboard,
I can assure you ;-), the most annoying one being the delete key. Nothing
deterministic, it could happen anytime (or not at all for several days).

  As a final resort, I upgraded the xorg and gnome packages - problem solved.

  Sébastien.

Re: [ck] Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/02/2007 09:11 AM, Sébastien Dugué wrote:

> This reminds me I had something similar happening about a year or so ago 
> running with Debian's unstable xorg and gnome.
> 
> The keys would stick for a short time (no, no coffee spilled on the
> keyboard, I can assure you ;-), the most annoying one being the delete
> key. Nothing deterministic, it could happen anytime (or not at all for
> several days).
> 
> As a final resort, I upgraded the xorg and gnome packages - problem
> solved.

Thank you. That "about a year" sounds possible; slackware has been one of 
the last to switch to modular xorg and until recently I was still running 
the old 6.9 series, so it could be xorg...

Rene.

Re: [ck] Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Thu, August 2, 2007 14:22, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 08/02/2007 09:11 AM, S�bastien Dugu� wrote:
>
>> This reminds me I had something similar happening about a year or so ago
>> running with Debian's unstable xorg and gnome.
>>
>> The keys would stick for a short time (no, no coffee spilled on the
>> keyboard, I can assure you ;-), the most annoying one being the delete
>> key. Nothing deterministic, it could happen anytime (or not at all for
>> several days).
>>
>> As a final resort, I upgraded the xorg and gnome packages - problem
>> solved.
>
> Thank you. That "about a year" sounds possible; slackware has been one of
> the last to switch to modular xorg and until recently I was still running
> the old 6.9 series, so it could be xorg...

Well, I'm running xorg since 2004, and hadn't the sticking key problem
until a few months ago, half a year max. I didn't install a new xorg
version just before the problem went away, and I'm using Fluxbox.

Oh well, the problem's gone now, no matter how or why.

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Ingo Molnar]

* Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:

> All right, how would you debug it? Give us some insight in how to 
> solve hard to trigger, happens at most only a few times a day, 
> annoying input bug? I thought the mouse warping was fixed after 23-rc1 
> and that input locking patch, but alas, the third day it happened 
> again.

i've got no idea how to debug such input bugs best, but, as a starting 
point, i've Cc:-ed the current maintainer of the input subsystem :-)

	Ingo

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/06/2007 09:12 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:

> * Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:
> 
>> All right, how would you debug it? Give us some insight in how to 
>> solve hard to trigger, happens at most only a few times a day, 
>> annoying input bug? I thought the mouse warping was fixed after 23-rc1 
>> and that input locking patch, but alas, the third day it happened 
>> again.
> 
> i've got no idea how to debug such input bugs best, but, as a starting 
> point, i've Cc:-ed the current maintainer of the input subsystem :-)

FWIW, I haven't experienced my "stuck delete" key anymore -- "since using 
CFS v19.1", but that might very well just be coincedence. If anyone 
wants/needs me to, I'll try to debug it, but for now I seem to be fine again.

Now all I need to know is whether or not moving thunderbird's windows around 
is expected to leave such an enormous non-repainting visual trail on the 
screen...

I believe I'm concluding that I'm not all together fond of the "new" modular 
X.org.

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Mon, August 6, 2007 15:10, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 08/06/2007 09:12 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
>> * Indan Zupancic <indan@nul.nu> wrote:
>>
>>> All right, how would you debug it? Give us some insight in how to
>>> solve hard to trigger, happens at most only a few times a day,
>>> annoying input bug? I thought the mouse warping was fixed after 23-rc1
>>> and that input locking patch, but alas, the third day it happened
>>> again.
>>
>> i've got no idea how to debug such input bugs best, but, as a starting
>> point, i've Cc:-ed the current maintainer of the input subsystem :-)
>
> FWIW, I haven't experienced my "stuck delete" key anymore -- "since using
> CFS v19.1", but that might very well just be coincedence. If anyone
> wants/needs me to, I'll try to debug it, but for now I seem to be fine again.

No stuck keys and no warping mouse seen yet since last time (currently running
2.6.23-rc2), so both problems are, for all practical purposes, fixed.

> Now all I need to know is whether or not moving thunderbird's windows around
> is expected to leave such an enormous non-repainting visual trail on the
> screen...
>
> I believe I'm concluding that I'm not all together fond of the "new" modular
> X.org.

I don't think it's fair to blame Xorg for that, except if changing back to an older
version fixes it. If Thunderbird is anything comparable to Firefox, then it's most
likely the generic slowdown of that program that might have made it worse. If it's
Xorg then it's probably something driver/settings related I guess, best to ask on
their mailinglist for that.

Anyway, if you want to experience a shock, try enabling xcomposite and run
xcompmgr -a or something. It's so wonderfully smooth (even though some
rendering seems slower than before, it's really worth it for me).

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/06/2007 05:19 PM, Indan Zupancic wrote:

[ Yes, OT, I'll shelve it after this ]

> Anyway, if you want to experience a shock, try enabling xcomposite and
> run xcompmgr -a or something. It's so wonderfully smooth (even though
> some rendering seems slower than before, it's really worth it for me).

Don't believe I can -- using a Matrox Millenium G550 (driver mga) and 
nothing I do seems to have an effect.

Rene.

OT: enabling Xcomposite [was: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd]

[Indan Zupancic]

On Mon, August 6, 2007 19:46, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 08/06/2007 05:19 PM, Indan Zupancic wrote:
>
> [ Yes, OT, I'll shelve it after this ]

Me too, and I wonder if we should've dropped a bunch of CCs...

>
>> Anyway, if you want to experience a shock, try enabling xcomposite and
>> run xcompmgr -a or something. It's so wonderfully smooth (even though
>> some rendering seems slower than before, it's really worth it for me).
>
> Don't believe I can -- using a Matrox Millenium G550 (driver mga) and
> nothing I do seems to have an effect.

Well, as far as I know adding the following to your xorg.conf should be enough:

Section "Extensions"
        Option  "Composite"     "enable"
EndSection

and then to enable it at runtime start a composite manager.

Reading the mga manpage it seems you need to add

Option "AccelMethod" "EXA"

to the driver section. (Though it says EXA is possibly unstable.)

Run "xdpyinfo | grep Composite" to see if it works or not.

But as you said, getting off-topic, so if the above doesn't work sent a
private mail, or go to the xorg mailinglist.

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Kyle Moffett]

On Aug 01, 2007, at 11:06:00, Indan Zupancic wrote:
> Different programs, different keys "stuck", so hard to tell. The  
> amount the pressed key is repeated differs too, from double to  
> hundreds.
>
> As an apparently separate problem my mouse warps once in a while  
> too, and that's not totally fixed yet, neither with that locking  
> patch. Throw in that two of my USB ports stopped working after a  
> rare power outage, I didn't totally trust my hardware any more,  
> hence my initial reluctance to report these problems.
>
> We could have independent problems with more or less the same  
> symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and  
> if you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be  
> something else.

Well I've just seen an FC box (6? 7?) running a 2.6.18-ish which  
reliably experiences the same problem (randomly stuck keys), so I  
doubt very much it's CFS.  Basically keys will somewhat randomly  
repeat 6-7 times, mainly depending on how fast you're typing (the  
intern using the box typed somewhat slowly and didn't trigger it  
much, but when I borrowed his keyboard I could reliably trigger it  
once every 5 sec or so.  Unfortunately I don't have access to that  
box anymore, so I can't really debug the problem.

Cheers,
Kyle Moffett

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Arjan van de Ven]

On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 00:40 -0400, Kyle Moffett wrote:
> On Aug 01, 2007, at 11:06:00, Indan Zupancic wrote:
> > Different programs, different keys "stuck", so hard to tell. The  
> > amount the pressed key is repeated differs too, from double to  
> > hundreds.
> >
> > As an apparently separate problem my mouse warps once in a while  
> > too, and that's not totally fixed yet, neither with that locking  
> > patch. Throw in that two of my USB ports stopped working after a  
> > rare power outage, I didn't totally trust my hardware any more,  
> > hence my initial reluctance to report these problems.
> >
> > We could have independent problems with more or less the same  
> > symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and  
> > if you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be  
> > something else.


the last time I saw something like this it was a BIOS that kept doing
USB->PS/2 emulation even when the kernel was running.. that caused great
havoc somehow...

those who are seeing this... is it all on a USB keyboard? If so, is the
bios set to do PS/2 emulation (sometimes called USB legacy emulation) ??

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Indan Zupancic]

On Tue, August 7, 2007 08:05, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 00:40 -0400, Kyle Moffett wrote:
>> On Aug 01, 2007, at 11:06:00, Indan Zupancic wrote:
>> > Different programs, different keys "stuck", so hard to tell. The
>> > amount the pressed key is repeated differs too, from double to
>> > hundreds.
>> >
>> > As an apparently separate problem my mouse warps once in a while
>> > too, and that's not totally fixed yet, neither with that locking
>> > patch. Throw in that two of my USB ports stopped working after a
>> > rare power outage, I didn't totally trust my hardware any more,
>> > hence my initial reluctance to report these problems.
>> >
>> > We could have independent problems with more or less the same
>> > symptoms, at least Teresa's problem seems much worse than ours, and
>> > if you and Ingo only experience a stuck delete key, it might be
>> > something else.
>
>
> the last time I saw something like this it was a BIOS that kept doing
> USB->PS/2 emulation even when the kernel was running.. that caused great
> havoc somehow...
>
> those who are seeing this... is it all on a USB keyboard? If so, is the
> bios set to do PS/2 emulation (sometimes called USB legacy emulation) ??

No, using PS/2 keyboard and mouse here, and made sure to disable USB
legacy emulation in the BIOS ages ago.

But for me the problems are gone now, since 2.6.23-rc1 (I don't think it was
fixed by CFS though, just in the same timeframe).

Greetings,

Indan

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Rene Herman]

On 08/07/2007 08:05 AM, Arjan van de Ven wrote:

[ stuck keys ]

> the last time I saw something like this it was a BIOS that kept doing 
> USB->PS/2 emulation even when the kernel was running.. that caused great 
> havoc somehow...
> 
> those who are seeing this... is it all on a USB keyboard? If so, is the 
> bios set to do PS/2 emulation (sometimes called USB legacy emulation) ??

No, as far as reported into this thread, it's all been PS/2. We can leave 
this thread be though. It's nothing to do with CFS and is a non-debuggable 
problem sofar unfortunately. Although very present at the start of this 
thread, I haven't experienced my stuck delete key since. Teresa and Indan 
have the same problem (well, "non-problem" that is). If it's still lurking 
somewhere, we'll see it resurface at some point.

Rene.

Re: Linux Kernel cfs scheduler and xorg kbd

[Mark Lord]

Rene Herman wrote:
> ..
> No, as far as reported into this thread, it's all been PS/2. We can 
> leave this thread be though. It's nothing to do with CFS and is a 
> non-debuggable problem sofar unfortunately. Although very present at the 
> start of this thread, I haven't experienced my stuck delete key since. 
> Teresa and Indan have the same problem (well, "non-problem" that is). If 
> it's still lurking somewhere, we'll see it resurface at some point.

My Dell X1 notebook has long suffered from this type of problem,
but disabling the "keyboard accessibility" features in KDE seems
to have greatly lessened the occurances.