Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[Robert Hancock]

Jimmy wrote:
> I know I'll be getting hell for this, I must be a masochist.
> 
> Anyway, I've been trying to figure out what purpose the gpl-only code 
> serves.
> What good comes out of disabling people from probing modules that do not 
> have a gpl-compatible license?

Who is disabling anything?

> Of cause, I would love to see more hardware manufactures release either 
> full specs, or GPL'd drivers, and I'm sure it will happen, in time.
> But until then, why are people wasting time writing code to inhibit 
> those who do not agree with them on licensing?
> 
> It seems pretty childish to try and force some license on people, 
> imagine trying to install firefox on Windows Vista, an error-dialog box 
> appears:
> "This application has been denied access to the Windows API as its 
> license are compatible with the Microsoft Philosophy" ?
> 
> Now, i don't want to waste clock cycles on executing code that serves no 
> purpose but restraining me from using my $1500 gfx card as intended, so 
> will me removing that crap from the source result in somebody trying to 
> obfuscate it to a point where neither of us know what is what?
> 
> Also, how about a list of PROS, explain to me whats so cool about it?

The kernel gets marked as tainted when you load proprietary modules 
because with no source code available there is no way to determine what 
kind of badness the code may have done to break the kernel. Bug reports 
from tainted kernels are generally given fairly little weight.

-- 
Robert Hancock      Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/

Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[Jimmy]

I know I'll be getting hell for this, I must be a masochist.

Anyway, I've been trying to figure out what purpose the gpl-only code 
serves.
What good comes out of disabling people from probing modules that do not 
have a gpl-compatible license?
Of cause, I would love to see more hardware manufactures release either 
full specs, or GPL'd drivers, and I'm sure it will happen, in time.
But until then, why are people wasting time writing code to inhibit 
those who do not agree with them on licensing?

It seems pretty childish to try and force some license on people, 
imagine trying to install firefox on Windows Vista, an error-dialog box 
appears:
"This application has been denied access to the Windows API as its 
license are compatible with the Microsoft Philosophy" ?

Now, i don't want to waste clock cycles on executing code that serves no 
purpose but restraining me from using my $1500 gfx card as intended, so 
will me removing that crap from the source result in somebody trying to 
obfuscate it to a point where neither of us know what is what?

Also, how about a list of PROS, explain to me whats so cool about it?

 - Jimmy

Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[Olivier Galibert]

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 11:49:04PM +0200, Jimmy wrote:
> Also, how about a list of PROS, explain to me whats so cool about it?

People who do binary-only drivers have a much better chance of not
doing a derivative work when they only use non-EXPORT_GPL exports, and
as a result not being in the wrong legally.

  OG.

Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[Jan Engelhardt]

On Oct 2 2007 23:49, Jimmy wrote:
>
> Anyway, I've been trying to figure out what purpose the gpl-only code serves.
> What good comes out of disabling people from probing modules that do not have a
> gpl-compatible license?

find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -iname '*.ko' | wc -l:

	2021

Proprietary modules that I can think of:

	5 to 10

It's not even 1/2 a !#$ percent. (Though knowing that many modules are for
not-so-common hw.)

> It seems pretty childish to try and force some license on people, imagine
> trying to install firefox on Windows Vista, an error-dialog box appears:
> "This application has been denied access to the Windows API as its license are
> compatible with the Microsoft Philosophy" ?

Not a kernel problem.

(That said, MS would probably face yet another antitrust charge if it did that.
Or better yet, people would just thankfully stop using it.)

> Now, i don't want to waste clock cycles on executing code that serves no
> purpose but restraining me from using my $1500 gfx card as intended,

Perhaps you intended to buy a game console instead?

That said, no one is restraining you. You can edit the kernel source
and rip out all the GPL checks. On top, it's not like the ati or
nvidia blob-ola would not load in today's kernel.

01:00 ichi:~ > lsmod | grep nv
nvidia               4717076  22 

Oh yeah, my kernel (unpatched, btw) really tries to stop me hard
from loading it.

> so will me
> removing that crap from the source result in somebody trying to obfuscate it to
> a point where neither of us know what is what?
>
> Also, how about a list of PROS, explain to me whats so cool about it?
>
> - Jimmy

Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[linux-os (Dick Johnson)]

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

>
> On Oct 2 2007 23:49, Jimmy wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, I've been trying to figure out what purpose the gpl-only code serves.
>> What good comes out of disabling people from probing modules that do not have a
>> gpl-compatible license?
>
> find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -iname '*.ko' | wc -l:
>
> 	2021
>
> Proprietary modules that I can think of:
>
> 	5 to 10
>
> It's not even 1/2 a !#$ percent. (Though knowing that many modules are for
> not-so-common hw.)
>
>> It seems pretty childish to try and force some license on people, imagine
>> trying to install firefox on Windows Vista, an error-dialog box appears:
>> "This application has been denied access to the Windows API as its license are
>> compatible with the Microsoft Philosophy" ?
>
> Not a kernel problem.
>
> (That said, MS would probably face yet another antitrust charge if it did that.
> Or better yet, people would just thankfully stop using it.)
>
>> Now, i don't want to waste clock cycles on executing code that serves no
>> purpose but restraining me from using my $1500 gfx card as intended,
>
> Perhaps you intended to buy a game console instead?
>
> That said, no one is restraining you. You can edit the kernel source
> and rip out all the GPL checks. On top, it's not like the ati or
> nvidia blob-ola would not load in today's kernel.
>
> 01:00 ichi:~ > lsmod | grep nv
> nvidia               4717076  22
>
> Oh yeah, my kernel (unpatched, btw) really tries to stop me hard
> from loading it.
>
>> so will me
>> removing that crap from the source result in somebody trying to obfuscate it to
>> a point where neither of us know what is what?
>>
>> Also, how about a list of PROS, explain to me whats so cool about it?
>>
>> - Jimmy
> -

Jimmy, a simple script can generate a link object that
will resolve any kernel symbols for your module without
any "export symbol" stuff at all. This was previously
demonstrated to the enraged few who considered it
immoral. Nevertheless, it's just as moral as bypassing
RIAA copy protection.

Just don't expect the kernel developers to authorize
its use, or show you how to do it!

Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.6.16.24 on an i686 machine (5592.59 BogoMips).
My book : http://www.AbominableFirebug.com/
_


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Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[David Newall]

linux-os (Dick Johnson) wrote:
> Just don't expect the kernel developers to authorize
> its use, or show you how to do it!

Well of course you can be totally up-front and public about it.  That, 
after all, is the point of GPL.

Re: Point of gpl-only modules (flame)

[Arjan van de Ven]

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:49:04 +0200
Jimmy <lists@dusted.dk> wrote:

> I know I'll be getting hell for this, I must be a masochist.
> 


DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.