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From: Dmitri Vorobiev <dmitri.vorobiev@gmail.com>
To: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
Cc: akpm@linux-foundation.org, torvalds@linux-foundation.org,
	rjw@sisk.pl, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, jirislaby@gmail.com,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Subject: Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 02:02:24 +0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4818EC70.90802@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080430.142137.236846072.davem@davemloft.net>

David Miller пишет:
> From: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:54:05 -0700
> 
>> linux-next does little to address our two largest (IMO) problems:
>> inadequate review and inadequate response to bug and regression reports. 
>> But those problems are harder to fix..
> 
> This is all about positive and negative reinforcement.
> 
> The people who sit and git bisect their lives away to get the
> regressions fixed need more positive reinforcement.  And the people
> who stick these regressions into the tree need more negative
> reinforcement.
> 
> The current way of dealing with folks who stick broken crud into the
> tree results in zero change in behvaior.
> 
> People who insert the bum changes into the tree only really have one
> core thing that they are sensitive to, their reputation.  That's why
> there is an enormous reluctance to even suggest reverts, it looks bad
> for them and it also makes more work for them in the end.
> 
> I guess what these folks are truly afraid of is that someone will
> start tracking reverts and post their results in some presentation
> at some big conference.  I say that would be a good thing.  To
> be honest, hitting the revert button more aggressively and putting
> the fear of being the "revert king" into everyone's minds might
> really help with this problem.
> 
> Currently there is no sufficient negative pushback on people who
> insert broken crud into the tree.  So it should be no surprise that it
> continues.

I'm not a frequent poster to this mailing list, but I do spend a good
portion of my life reading it. Please excuse me for expressing my very
personal opinion, but I thought you might probably be interested in a
detached view of the situation.

I think that many have guessed that I would like to talk about the attacks
to Ingo and backwards. Believe me, this fight looks childish, as it becomes
obvious that that went beyond purely technical disputes, which Linus is so
keen of rightfully writing about.

In no case am I implying any kind of offense, but I do believe that bad
emotions do hinder the community from advancing with the technical things.

Dmitri

  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-04-30 22:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-04-30  2:03 Slow DOWN, please!!! David Miller
2008-04-30  4:03 ` David Newall
2008-04-30  4:18   ` David Miller
2008-04-30 13:04     ` David Newall
2008-04-30 13:18       ` Michael Kerrisk
2008-04-30 14:51       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 18:21         ` David Newall
2008-04-30 18:27           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 18:55             ` David Newall
2008-04-30 19:08               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 19:16                 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 19:25                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  4:31                     ` David Newall
2008-05-01  4:37                       ` David Miller
2008-05-01 13:49                       ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-01 15:28                       ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-05-01 17:49                         ` Russ Dill
2008-05-02  1:47                           ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-05-02  2:54                             ` Russ Dill
2008-05-02  7:01                               ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-05-02 17:34                               ` Lee Mathers (TCAFS)
2008-05-02 18:21                                 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-02 21:34                                   ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-04-30 19:06             ` Chris Friesen
2008-04-30 19:13               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 19:22                 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 19:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30  7:11   ` Tarkan Erimer
2008-04-30 13:28     ` David Newall
2008-04-30 13:38       ` Mike Galbraith
2008-04-30 14:41       ` mws
2008-04-30 14:55   ` Russ Dill
2008-04-30 14:48 ` Peter Teoh
2008-04-30 19:36 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 20:00   ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 20:20     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 20:05   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 20:14     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 20:56       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:34       ` Greg KH
2008-04-30 20:45     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 21:37       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:23         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:31           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:41             ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 23:23               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:41                 ` david
2008-04-30 23:51                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01  0:57               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01  1:25                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  2:13                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01  2:30                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:54                       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-14 14:55                       ` Pavel Machek
2008-05-01  1:35                 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-01 12:31               ` Tarkan Erimer
2008-05-01 15:34                 ` Stefan Richter
2008-05-02 14:05                   ` Tarkan Erimer
2008-04-30 22:46             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 22:52               ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 23:21                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 23:38                   ` Chris Shoemaker
2008-04-30 23:20               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  0:42                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01  1:19                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  1:31                     ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01  1:43                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 10:59                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 15:26                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 17:09                             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 17:41                               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:11                                 ` Al Viro
2008-05-01 18:23                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:30                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:58                                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:37                                     ` Al Viro
2008-05-01 19:58                                       ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 20:07                                       ` Joel Becker
2008-05-01 18:50                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:07                                   ` david
2008-05-01 19:28                                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:46                                       ` david
2008-05-01 19:53                                         ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 22:17                                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 19:39                                 ` Friedrich Göpel
2008-05-01 21:59                                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-02 12:17                                   ` Stefan Richter
2008-05-01 18:35                             ` Chris Frey
2008-05-02 13:22                               ` Enrico Weigelt
2008-05-01  1:40                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  1:51                       ` David Miller
2008-05-01  2:01                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  2:17                           ` David Miller
2008-05-01  2:21                       ` Al Viro
2008-05-01  5:19                         ` david
2008-05-04  3:26                         ` Rene Herman
2008-05-01  2:31                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2008-05-01 18:32                         ` Stephen Clark
2008-05-01  3:53                       ` Frans Pop
2008-05-01 11:38                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 14:28                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 12:41                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 15:06                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01  5:50                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 11:53                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 12:11                         ` Will Newton
2008-05-01 13:16                         ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2008-05-01 13:53                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 14:35                             ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2008-05-01 15:29                           ` Ray Lee
2008-05-01 19:03                             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:36                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-05-01  1:30                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-05-01  5:35                   ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 23:03             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:40           ` david
2008-04-30 23:45             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:57               ` david
2008-05-01  0:01                 ` Chris Shoemaker
2008-05-01  0:14                   ` david
2008-05-01  0:38                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  1:39                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-05-01  0:38               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01  0:56                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01  1:25                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 12:05                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 13:54       ` Stefan Richter
2008-05-01 14:06         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:29     ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-01  1:57       ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-01  2:52         ` Frans Pop
2008-05-01  3:47       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01  4:17         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-01  4:46           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-04 13:47             ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-05-04 15:05               ` Jacek Luczak
2008-05-01  9:17           ` Alan Cox
2008-04-30 20:15   ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 20:31     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 20:47       ` Dan Noe
2008-04-30 20:59         ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 21:30           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 21:37             ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 22:08             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:53           ` Mariusz Kozlowski
2008-04-30 23:11             ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-12  9:27               ` Ben Dooks
2008-05-02 10:20             ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-02 15:33               ` Mariusz Kozlowski
2008-04-30 20:54       ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 21:21         ` David Miller
2008-04-30 21:47           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:02           ` Dmitri Vorobiev [this message]
2008-04-30 22:19           ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-30 22:22             ` David Miller
2008-04-30 22:39               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:54                 ` david
2008-04-30 23:12                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 23:59                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01  0:15                   ` Chris Shoemaker
2008-05-01  5:09                     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 22:35             ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-30 22:49               ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 22:51               ` David Miller
2008-05-01  1:40                 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-05-01  2:48                 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-05  3:04             ` Rusty Russell
2008-05-02 13:37           ` Helge Hafting
2008-04-30 21:42         ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-04-30 22:06           ` Jiri Slaby
2008-04-30 22:10           ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 22:19             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:28               ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-05-01 16:26                 ` Diego Calleja
2008-05-01 16:31                   ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-05-02  1:48                   ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-05-01 23:06               ` Kevin Winchester
2008-04-30 23:04             ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-05-01 15:19               ` Jim Schutt
2008-05-01  6:15             ` Jan Engelhardt
2008-05-09  9:28         ` Jiri Kosina
2008-05-09 15:00           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-04-30 21:52       ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-05-01  3:24         ` Bob Tracy
2008-05-01 16:39         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-05-01  0:31       ` RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies Adrian Bunk
2008-04-30  7:03         ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01  8:13           ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 14:15             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 12:42               ` David Woodhouse
2008-04-30 15:02                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-05 10:03                 ` Benny Halevy
2008-05-04 12:45               ` Rene Herman
2008-05-04 13:00                 ` Pekka Enberg
2008-05-04 13:19                   ` Rene Herman
2008-05-05 13:13                   ` crosscompiler [WAS: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies] Enrico Weigelt
2008-05-01  9:16             ` RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies Frans Pop
2008-05-01 10:30               ` Enrico Weigelt
2008-05-01 13:02                 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 11:30           ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-30 14:20             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 12:53               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 13:21               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 15:49                 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01  1:13                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-02  9:00                     ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 16:38                   ` Steven Rostedt
2008-05-01 17:18                     ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 17:24                   ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-01 19:26                     ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 19:39                       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-05-02 10:23                       ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-02  2:08                 ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-02  3:10                   ` Josh Boyer
2008-05-02  4:09                     ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-02  8:29                       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-02 10:16                         ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-02 11:58                           ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-02 14:58                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-02 15:44                           ` Carlos R. Mafra
2008-05-02 16:28                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-02 17:15                               ` Carlos R. Mafra
2008-05-02 18:02                                 ` Pallipadi, Venkatesh
2008-05-09 16:32                                   ` Mark Lord
2008-05-09 19:30                                     ` Carlos R. Mafra
2008-05-09 20:39                                       ` Mark Lord
2008-05-01  0:41         ` David Miller
2008-05-01 13:23           ` Adrian Bunk
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-04-30 20:59 Slow DOWN, please!!! devzero

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