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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: lkml@morethan.org
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [BUG FIX] Make x86_32 uni-processor Atomic ops, Atomic
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:30:08 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A173580.9050304@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200905221721.08495.lkml@morethan.org>

If there is a driver which relies on locked operations to be atomic with
respect to the I/O subsystem, it needs to use true locks, not LOCK_PREFIX.

An interrupt cannot interrupt between two parts of a lockable
instruction even if it isn't locked (there are non-atomic instructions
in the x86 architecture, but they can never be locked.)

The other thing that you might be seeing is that a locked operation may
be slow enough to keep an otherwise-present race condition from being
triggered.

> That tells us nothing, since the CPU technical details are under NDA.

Have you considered that you might be running into a CPU bug or design
error?  There was the out-of-order store bug on the Winchip that needed
workarounds (CONFIG_X86_OOSTORE) that I don't think were ever well
tested and might very well have bitrotted?

> All that can be done in this case is report behavior differences from
> the closest publicly described processor (Pentium-M).
> 
> For that purpose, I suggest that a single processor box, with other 
> hardware that makes memory access independent of the processor's 
> control using a processor older than P-4 is a potential test bed.
> "Other hardware that makes memory access..." I previously termed:
> "buss master DMA" - which is overly specific.  It misleads people
> into thinking I am seeing hardware control issues rather than
> non-exclusive memory access.
> 
> My earlier comments about taking an interrupt between the memory read
> and the memory write operations is from a different manual than the
> one posted.  A manual that only applies to processors older than 
> the ones supported by the Linux kernel.  
> Sorry, my bad, grabbed the wrong book, posted the correct link (SH).
> 
> Until one or more specific usages of the LOCK_PREFIX macro can be 
> demonstrated to be incorrect (at least for some of the processors 
> using this code) - -
> 
> Then making the posted change is a single point change that gives a 
> pair of builds (one with, one without) to compare the behavior of on 
> the test bed.
> 
> It is *not* the preferred change for a general release kernel, the
> preferred change would be one that makes a specific rather than
> general correction.  
> Perhaps only for some functions, perhaps only for some of the 
> processors that currently select this code.
> 
> The observation that executing an unnecessary 'lock' opcode in some
> cases slows down the machine is not felt by myself to be significant 
> to duplicating my observations.  Note: I have been wrong before.

What makes you draw that conclusion, in particular?  A lock prefix
typically slows down the following instruction dramatically, on some
processors by many hundreds of cycles.

> This is as informative as I can make the message.
> 
> PS: *not* a single machine failure, tested on five machines, owned
> by four different people, two brands, with different use histories.

What do they have in common?

	-hpa

  reply	other threads:[~2009-05-22 23:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-05-22 16:39 [BUG FIX] Make x86_32 uni-processor Atomic ops, Atomic Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 18:23 ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-22 18:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-22 18:59   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-22 19:20     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 22:21     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 23:30       ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2009-05-23  0:45         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-23  0:51           ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-23 10:44             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-23 11:18               ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-24  7:04               ` Harald Welte
2009-05-24 12:48                 ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-24 15:43                 ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 22:13               ` Roland Dreier
2009-05-27 22:33                 ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-23 15:52             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-23 18:04             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-23 23:44               ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-24  6:49                 ` Harald Welte
2009-05-24 12:38                   ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-24 17:31                     ` Harald Welte
2009-05-27 12:18                   ` Re:[VIA Support] was: " Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 12:22                     ` [VIA " Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 12:47                     ` Harald Welte
2009-05-27 13:00                       ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-29 12:06                     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-30 15:48                   ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-24 12:27                 ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-24 17:22                   ` Harald Welte
2009-05-24 18:00                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-24 18:32                     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-24 18:46                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-24 19:09                         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 19:03                         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 19:18                           ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 19:46                             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 21:10                               ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 21:17                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-25 23:03                                   ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 23:35                                     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-26  0:05                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-26 12:37                                       ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-26 17:13                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-25  1:31                       ` i2c-viapro / via-fb drivers on VIA CX700 Harald Welte
2009-05-25 12:54                         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 13:36                         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-25 16:05                       ` [BUG FIX] Make x86_32 uni-processor Atomic ops, Atomic Michael S. Zick
2009-05-28 20:30                     ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-28 20:54                       ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-28 23:15                         ` [Futex RFC] was " Michael S. Zick
2009-05-29  2:00                           ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 17:01                 ` LOCK prefix on uni processor has its use (was Re: [BUG FIX] Make x86_32 uni-processor Atomic ops, Atomic) Harald Welte
2009-05-27 17:10                   ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 17:19                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-27 17:25                     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 18:08                   ` LOCK prefix on uni processor has its use Andi Kleen
2009-05-27 18:22                     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 18:33                       ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 18:55                         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-27 18:38                       ` Andi Kleen
2009-06-02 12:48                     ` Harald Welte
2009-06-02 13:03                       ` Andi Kleen
2009-06-02 13:26                         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-06-02 13:42                           ` Andi Kleen
2009-06-03 11:46                             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-28  2:56                   ` LOCK prefix on uni processor has its use (was Re: [BUG FIX] Make x86_32 uni-processor Atomic ops, Atomic) H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-23 20:51             ` [BUG FIX] Make x86_32 uni-processor Atomic ops, Atomic Michael S. Zick
2009-05-28 12:48       ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-28 13:29         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-28 20:50           ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-28 20:58             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-28 21:16               ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-28 21:21                 ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 19:17   ` Michael S. Zick
     [not found] ` <200905221343.30638.lkml@morethan.org>
     [not found]   ` <20090522192329.GF846@one.firstfloor.org>
2009-05-22 19:53     ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 20:05       ` Samuel Thibault
2009-05-22 20:32         ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 20:42           ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-22 20:57             ` Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 20:43           ` Samuel Thibault
2009-05-22 21:59             ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-22 22:00               ` Samuel Thibault
2009-05-22 22:14                 ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-22 22:14                   ` Samuel Thibault
2009-05-22 20:45           ` Roland Dreier
2009-05-24 18:59           ` Robert Hancock
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-05-22 18:50 Michael S. Zick
2009-05-22 19:24 ` Roland Dreier
2009-05-22 20:03   ` Michael S. Zick

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