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From: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	George Dunlap <george.dunlap@eu.citrix.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"jeremy@goop.org" <jeremy@goop.org>,
	Dan Magenheimer <dan.magenheimer@oracle.com>,
	"xen-devel@lists.xensource.com" <xen-devel@lists.xensource.com>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Keir Fraser <Keir.Fraser@eu.citrix.com>,
	"gregkh@suse.de" <gregkh@suse.de>,
	"kurt.hackel@oracle.com" <kurt.hackel@oracle.com>,
	Ian Pratt <Ian.Pratt@eu.citrix.com>,
	"xen-users@lists.xensource.com" <xen-users@lists.xensource.com>,
	ksrinivasan <ksrinivasan@novell.com>,
	"EAnderson@novell.com" <EAnderson@novell.com>,
	"wimcoekaerts@wimmekes.net" <wimcoekaerts@wimmekes.net>,
	Stephen Spector <stephen.spector@citrix.com>,
	"jens.axboe@oracle.com" <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	"npiggin@suse.de" <npiggin@suse.de>
Subject: Re: Xen is a feature
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:01:37 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A2B9001.7090706@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090607091349.GA26897@elte.hu>

Ingo Molnar wrote:
>> There is in fact a way to get dom0 support with nearly no changes 
>> to Linux, but it involves massive changes to Xen itself and 
>> requires hardware support: run dom0 as a fully virtualized guest, 
>> and assign it all the resources dom0 can access.  It's probably a 
>> massive effort though.
>>
>> I've considered it for kvm when faced with the "I want a thin 
>> hypervisor" question: compile the hypervisor kernel with PCI 
>> support but nothing else (no CONFIG_BLOCK or CONFIG_NET, no device 
>> drivers), load userspace from initramfs, and assign host devices 
>> to one or more privileged guests.  You could probably run the host 
>> with a heavily stripped configuration, and enjoy the slimness 
>> while every interrupt invokes the scheduler, a context switch, and 
>> maybe an IPI for good measure.
>>     
>
> This would be an acceptable model i suspect, if someone wants a 
> 'slim hypervisor'.
>
> We can context switch way faster than we handle IRQs. Plus in a 
> slimmed-down config we could intentionally slim down aspects of the 
> scheduler as well, if it ever became a measurable performance issue. 
> The hypervisor would run a minimal user-space and most of the 
> context-switching overhead relates to having a full-fledged 
> user-space with rich requirements. So there's no real conceptual 
> friction between a 'lean and mean' hypervisor and a full-featured 
> native kernel.
>   

The context switch would be taken by the Xen scheduler, not the Linux 
scheduler.  It's how interrupts work under Xen: an interrupt is taken, 
Xen schedules the domain that owns the interrupts (dom0 usually), which 
then handles the interrupt.  The Linux scheduler would only be involved 
if you thread your interrupt handlers.

This context switch is necessary regardless of how dom0 is integrated 
into Linux; it's simply a side effect of implementing device drivers 
outside the kernel (in this context, the kernel is Xen, and dom0 is just 
another userspace, albeit with elevated privileges.  The Linux 
equivalent to dom0 is a process that uses uio.

-- 
Do not meddle in the internals of kernels, for they are subtle and quick to panic.


  reply	other threads:[~2009-06-07 10:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-05-12 23:25 [GIT PULL] Xen APIC hooks (with io_apic_ops) Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 01/17] xen/dom0: handle acpi lapic parsing in Xen dom0 Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 02/17] x86: add io_apic_ops to allow interception Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-25  3:54   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-27  7:17     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 03/17] xen: implement io_apic_ops Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 04/17] xen: create dummy ioapic mapping Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 05/17] xen: implement pirq type event channels Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 06/17] x86/io_apic: add get_nr_irqs_gsi() Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 07/17] xen/apic: identity map gsi->irqs Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 08/17] xen: direct irq registration to pirq event channels Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 09/17] xen: bind pirq to vector and event channel Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 10/17] xen: pre-initialize legacy irqs early Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 11/17] xen: don't setup acpi interrupt unless there is one Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 12/17] xen: use acpi_get_override_irq() to get triggering for legacy irqs Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 13/17] xen: initialize irq 0 too Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 14/17] xen: dynamically allocate irq & event structures Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 15/17] xen: set pirq name to something useful Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 16/17] xen: fix legacy irq setup, make ioapic-less machines work Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-12 23:25 ` [PATCH 17/17] xen: disable MSI Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-19 12:35 ` [GIT PULL] Xen APIC hooks (with io_apic_ops) Ingo Molnar
2009-05-20 17:57   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-25  4:10     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-26 12:46       ` [Xen-devel] " George Dunlap
2009-05-26 18:26         ` Avi Kivity
2009-05-26 19:18           ` Dan Magenheimer
2009-05-26 19:41             ` Avi Kivity
2009-05-28  0:13             ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-28  0:49               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-28  3:47               ` Dan Magenheimer
2009-05-28 14:26               ` George Dunlap
2009-05-29  0:45               ` Xen is a feature Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-29  1:27                 ` Greg KH
2009-05-29  4:05                 ` David Miller
2009-05-29  6:37                   ` Jaswinder Singh Rajput
2009-05-29  6:51                     ` David Miller
2009-05-29 12:01                   ` George Dunlap
2009-05-29 14:14                     ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2009-05-29 21:29                       ` David Miller
     [not found]                     ` <87tz33ep1b.fsf@basil.nowhere.org>
2009-05-29 21:31                       ` [Xen-devel] " Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-05-29 23:09                       ` Nakajima, Jun
2009-05-29 23:26                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-06-02 15:23                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-06-02 16:41                       ` George Dunlap
2009-06-02 17:28                         ` Chris Friesen
2009-06-02 17:46                         ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 18:02                           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 18:59                             ` Avi Kivity
2009-06-07  9:13                               ` Ingo Molnar
2009-06-07 10:01                                 ` Avi Kivity [this message]
2009-06-07 10:35                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-06-07 12:46                                     ` Avi Kivity
2009-06-07 13:02                                       ` Jaswinder Singh Rajput
2009-06-04 14:02                           ` [Xen-users] " Thomas Goirand
2009-06-02 18:59                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-06-03 19:49                       ` Bill Davidsen
2009-06-03 20:20                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-06-03 22:37                           ` Bill Davidsen
2009-06-03 23:29                             ` Frans Pop
2009-06-04 13:21                               ` George Dunlap
2009-06-04 15:10                                 ` Theodore Tso
2009-06-04 15:31                                 ` Chris Friesen
2009-06-05  4:14                               ` Bill Davidsen
2009-06-05  4:55                                 ` Chris Friesen
2009-06-02 22:40                     ` Steven Rostedt
2009-06-02 23:28                       ` Merge Xen (the hypervisor) into Linux Ingo Molnar
2009-06-03  0:00                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2009-06-03  0:32                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-06-03  2:43                           ` Theodore Tso
2009-06-03  3:42                             ` Steven Rostedt
2009-06-03  4:49                               ` Dan Magenheimer
2009-06-03  4:58                                 ` David Miller
2009-06-03  5:07                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2009-06-03  5:22                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2009-06-03 12:03                                   ` George Dunlap
2009-06-03 19:05                                     ` Theodore Tso
     [not found]                                       ` <4A27CF94.1050903@gmx.de>
2009-06-04 14:03                                         ` [Xen-users] " Steven Rostedt
2009-06-03  7:28                             ` Gerd Hoffmann
2009-06-03  8:47                               ` Alan Cox
2009-06-03  9:09                                 ` Gerd Hoffmann
2009-06-03  9:20                                   ` Keir Fraser
2009-06-03 11:15                                   ` Theodore Tso
2009-06-03 11:39                                     ` Keir Fraser
2009-06-03 11:41                                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2009-06-03  1:00                         ` Joel Becker
2009-06-03  2:00                           ` david
2009-06-03  7:59                           ` Alan Cox
2009-06-03  8:07                         ` Christian Tramnitz
2009-06-04 18:53                           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-05  0:09                             ` Samuel Thibault
2009-06-05  0:18                               ` David Miller
2009-06-05  0:54                               ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-03 17:31                         ` Chris Friesen
2009-06-03 17:36                           ` Alan Cox
2009-06-02 23:41                       ` Xen is a feature Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-30  2:19                 ` [Xen-devel] " Andy Burns
2009-05-26 21:19         ` [Xen-devel] Re: [GIT PULL] Xen APIC hooks (with io_apic_ops) Gerd Hoffmann
2009-05-27 10:14           ` George Dunlap
2009-05-24 20:10   ` Avi Kivity
2009-05-25  3:51     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-25  4:55       ` Avi Kivity
2009-05-25  5:06         ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-25  5:12           ` Avi Kivity
2009-05-25  5:19             ` Ingo Molnar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-05-29 11:48 Xen is a feature Tomasz Chmielewski
2009-05-29 13:08 Sander Eikelenboom
2009-05-31 21:11 devzero
2009-06-02 22:44 Sander Eikelenboom

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