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From: Zachary Amsden <zamsden@redhat.com>
To: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
Cc: Glauber Costa <glommer@redhat.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	avi@redhat.com, Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5] Add a global synchronization point for pvclock
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:05:25 -1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4BC8D115.2010900@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4BC8CA52.4090703@goop.org>

On 04/16/2010 10:36 AM, Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote:
> On 04/15/2010 11:37 AM, Glauber Costa wrote:
>    
>> In recent stress tests, it was found that pvclock-based systems
>> could seriously warp in smp systems. Using ingo's time-warp-test.c,
>> I could trigger a scenario as bad as 1.5mi warps a minute in some systems.
>>
>>      
> Is that "1.5 million"?
>
>    
>> (to be fair, it wasn't that bad in most of them). Investigating further, I
>> found out that such warps were caused by the very offset-based calculation
>> pvclock is based on.
>>
>>      
> Is the problem that the tscs are starting out of sync, or that they're
> drifting relative to each other over time?  Do the problems become worse
> the longer the uptime?  How large are the offsets we're talking about here?
>    

This is one source of the problem, but the same thing happens at many 
levels... tsc may start out of sync, drift between sockets, be badly 
re-calibrated by the BIOS, etc... the issue persists even if the TSCs 
are perfectly in sync - the measurement of them is not.

So reading TSC == 100,000 units at time A and then waiting 10 units, one 
may read TSC == 100,010 +/- 5 units because the code stream is not 
perfectly serialized - nor can it be.  There will always be some amount 
of error unless running in perfect lock-step, which only happens in a 
simulator.

This inherent measurement error can cause apparent time to go backwards 
when measured simultaneously across multiple CPUs, or when 
re-calibrating against an external clocksource.  Combined with other 
factors as above, it can be of sufficient magnitude to be noticed.  KVM 
clock is particularly exposed to the problem because the TSC is measured 
and recalibrated for each virtual CPU whenever there is a physical CPU 
switch, so micro-adjustments forwards and backwards may occur during the 
recalibration - and appear as a real backwards time warp to the guest.  
I have some patches to fix that issue, but the SMP problem remains to be 
fixed - and is addressed quite thoroughly by this patch.

Zach

  reply	other threads:[~2010-04-16 21:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-04-15 18:37 [PATCH 0/5] pv clock misc fixes Glauber Costa
2010-04-15 18:37 ` [PATCH 1/5] Add a global synchronization point for pvclock Glauber Costa
2010-04-15 18:37   ` [PATCH 2/5] change msr numbers for kvmclock Glauber Costa
2010-04-15 18:37     ` [PATCH 3/5] Try using new kvm clock msrs Glauber Costa
2010-04-15 18:37       ` [PATCH 4/5] export new cpuid KVM_CAP Glauber Costa
2010-04-15 18:37         ` [PATCH 5/5] add documentation about kvmclock Glauber Costa
2010-04-15 19:28           ` Randy Dunlap
2010-04-15 20:10             ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-17 18:58         ` [PATCH 4/5] export new cpuid KVM_CAP Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 14:50           ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-20  9:29             ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-17 18:55       ` [PATCH 3/5] Try using new kvm clock msrs Avi Kivity
2010-04-17 18:51     ` [PATCH 2/5] change msr numbers for kvmclock Avi Kivity
2010-04-16 20:23   ` [PATCH 1/5] Add a global synchronization point for pvclock Marcelo Tosatti
2010-04-16 20:36   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-16 21:05     ` Zachary Amsden [this message]
2010-04-19 10:39     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 10:50       ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 11:05         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 11:10           ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 14:21             ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-19 14:33               ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 14:46                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 16:18                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-20  9:31                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-20 18:23                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-20 18:54                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-20 19:42                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-21  0:07                             ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-22 13:11                             ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-23  1:44                               ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-23  9:34                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-23 19:22                                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-23 19:25                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-23 21:31                                   ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-23 21:35                                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-23 21:41                                       ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-24  9:30                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-24  9:29                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 16:11                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-19 14:26     ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-19 16:19       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-04-19 18:25         ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-20  1:57           ` Marcelo Tosatti
2010-04-20  9:35             ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-20 12:59               ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-20 15:16                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-21  0:01               ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-21  8:06                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-17 18:48   ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-17 18:49     ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 10:43       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 10:47         ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 10:56           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 11:13             ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 11:19               ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 11:40                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 14:32                 ` Glauber Costa
2010-04-19 14:37                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 10:46     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 10:49       ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 10:51         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 10:54           ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 18:35             ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-20  9:39               ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-21  0:05                 ` Zachary Amsden
2010-04-21  8:08                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 10:49       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 10:53         ` Avi Kivity
2010-04-19 10:59           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-04-19 11:35             ` Avi Kivity
2010-10-25 23:30   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2010-10-26  8:14     ` Avi Kivity
2010-10-26 10:49       ` Glauber Costa
2010-10-26 17:04       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge

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