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From: Lai Jiangshan <laijs@cn.fujitsu.com>
To: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@elte.hu, dipankar@in.ibm.com,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, mathieu.desnoyers@polymtl.ca,
	josh@joshtriplett.org, niv@us.ibm.com, tglx@linutronix.de,
	peterz@infradead.org, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu,
	dhowells@redhat.com, eric.dumazet@gmail.com, darren@dvhart.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 06/11] smp: Document transitivity for memory barriers.
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:21:17 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4D64A75D.1010404@cn.fujitsu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1298431742.7666.77.camel@gandalf.stny.rr.com>

On 02/23/2011 11:29 AM, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-02-22 at 17:39 -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>> Transitivity is guaranteed only for full memory barriers (smp_mb()).
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
>> ---
>>  Documentation/memory-barriers.txt |   58 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>  1 files changed, 58 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
>>
>> diff --git a/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt b/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt
>> index 631ad2f..f0d3a80 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt
>> +++ b/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt
>> @@ -21,6 +21,7 @@ Contents:
>>       - SMP barrier pairing.
>>       - Examples of memory barrier sequences.
>>       - Read memory barriers vs load speculation.
>> +     - Transitivity
>>  
>>   (*) Explicit kernel barriers.
>>  
>> @@ -959,6 +960,63 @@ the speculation will be cancelled and the value reloaded:
>>  	retrieved                               :       :       +-------+
>>  
>>
>> +TRANSITIVITY
>> +------------
>> +
>> +Transitivity is a deeply intuitive notion about ordering that is not
>> +always provided by real computer systems.  The following example
>> +demonstrates transitivity (also called "cumulativity"):
>> +
>> +	CPU 1			CPU 2			CPU 3
>> +	=======================	=======================	=======================
>> +		{ X = 0, Y = 0 }
>> +	STORE X=1		LOAD X			STORE Y=1
>> +				<general barrier>	<general barrier>
>> +				LOAD Y			LOAD X
>> +
>> +Suppose that CPU 2's load from X returns 1 and its load from Y returns 0.
>> +This indicates that CPU 2's load from X in some sense follows CPU 1's
>> +store to X and that CPU 2's load from Y in some sense preceded CPU 3's
>> +store to Y.  The question is then "Can CPU 3's load from X return 0?"
>> +
>> +Because CPU 2's load from X in some sense came after CPU 1's store, it
>> +is natural to expect that CPU 3's load from X must therefore return 1.
>> +This expectation is an example of transitivity: if a load executing on
>> +CPU A follows a load from the same variable executing on CPU B, then
>> +CPU A's load must either return the same value that CPU B's load did,
>> +or must return some later value.
>> +
>> +In the Linux kernel, use of general memory barriers guarantees
>> +transitivity.  Therefore, in the above example, if CPU 2's load from X
>> +returns 1 and its load from Y returns 0, then CPU 3's load from X must
>> +also return 1.
>> +
>> +However, transitivity is -not- guaranteed for read or write barriers.
>> +For example, suppose that CPU 2's general barrier in the above example
>> +is changed to a read barrier as shown below:
>> +
>> +	CPU 1			CPU 2			CPU 3
>> +	=======================	=======================	=======================
>> +		{ X = 0, Y = 0 }
>> +	STORE X=1		LOAD X			STORE Y=1
>> +				<read barrier>		<general barrier>
>> +				LOAD Y			LOAD X
>> +
>> +This substitution destroys transitivity: in this example, it is perfectly
>> +legal for CPU 2's load from X to return 1, its load from Y to return 0,
>> +and CPU 3's load from X to return 0.
>> +
>> +The key point is that although CPU 2's read barrier orders its pair
>> +of loads, it does not guarantee to order CPU 1's store.  Therefore, if
>> +this example runs on a system where CPUs 1 and 2 share a store buffer
>> +or a level of cache, CPU 2 might have early access to CPU 1's writes.
>> +General barriers are therefore required to ensure that all CPUs agree
>> +on the combined order of CPU 1's and CPU 2's accesses.
> 
> Sounds like someone had a fun time debugging their code.
> 
>> +
>> +To reiterate, if your code requires transitivity, use general barriers
>> +throughout.
> 
> I expect that your code is the only code in the kernel that actually
> requires transitivity ;-)
> 

Maybe, but my RCURING also requires transitivity, I had asked Paul for advice
one years ago when I was writing the patch. Good document for it!

Thanks,
Lai

  reply	other threads:[~2011-02-23  6:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-02-23  1:39 [PATCH tip/core/rcu 0/14] Preview of RCU patches for 2.6.39 Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 01/11] rcu: call __rcu_read_unlock() in exit_rcu for tiny RCU Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-25  8:29   ` Lai Jiangshan
2011-02-25 19:40     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-03-24  3:45       ` Lai Jiangshan
2011-03-24 13:07         ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-03-25  2:30           ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 02/11] rcutorture: Get rid of duplicate sched.h include Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 03/11] rcu: add documentation saying which RCU flavor to choose Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 04/11] rcupdate: remove dead code Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 14:36   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 05/11] rcu: add comment saying why DEBUG_OBJECTS_RCU_HEAD depends on PREEMPT Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  3:23   ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 13:59     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
     [not found]     ` <BLU0-SMTP615CB0BE0A2623EF62925096DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 14:11       ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 14:37         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2011-02-23 14:55       ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 15:02         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2011-02-23 15:13         ` [PATCH] debug rcu head support !PREEMPT config Mathieu Desnoyers
     [not found]         ` <BLU0-SMTP1519908E0ACAEE1384F71896DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 15:27           ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 15:37             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
     [not found]             ` <BLU0-SMTP42770DC9BDE561B962274096DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 18:31               ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 18:40                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
     [not found]         ` <BLU0-SMTP900C4ABCF4001FBCB1594696DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 17:49           ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 06/11] smp: Document transitivity for memory barriers Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  3:29   ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23  6:21     ` Lai Jiangshan [this message]
2011-02-23 15:14       ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 07/11] rcu: Remove conditional compilation for RCU CPU stall warnings Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 08/11] rcu: Decrease memory-barrier usage based on semi-formal proof Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 09/11] rcu: merge TREE_PREEPT_RCU blocked_tasks[] lists Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 10/11] rcu: Update documentation to reflect blocked_tasks[] merge Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 11/11] rcu: move TREE_RCU from softirq to kthread Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  2:44   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2011-02-23 15:11     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  3:09   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2011-02-23 15:12     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 14:02   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
     [not found]   ` <BLU0-SMTP211F39903EDACD9B7E025C96DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 14:42     ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 16:16   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2011-02-23 16:41     ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 17:03       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2011-02-23 17:14       ` Frederic Weisbecker
     [not found]       ` <BLU0-SMTP5642728A153E83B94895F896DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 17:30         ` Frederic Weisbecker
     [not found]       ` <BLU0-SMTP65F733B8D1D704C7EA1F8796DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 17:34         ` Christoph Lameter
2011-02-23 18:17           ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 18:29             ` Christoph Lameter
2011-02-23 18:32               ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 19:19                 ` Christoph Lameter
2011-02-23 19:23                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-02-23 19:35                     ` Steven Rostedt
2011-02-23 19:40                     ` Christoph Lameter
2011-02-23 20:15                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 19:16               ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 19:24                 ` Christoph Lameter
2011-02-23 20:45                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 18:38             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2011-02-23 18:27           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2011-02-23 19:10           ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 19:22             ` Christoph Lameter
2011-02-23 19:39               ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 16:50   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2011-02-23 19:06     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23 19:13       ` Frederic Weisbecker
2011-02-23 20:41         ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found]   ` <BLU0-SMTP57EE20F30B92B8763FD2FE96DB0@phx.gbl>
2011-02-23 18:52     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-25  8:17   ` Lai Jiangshan
2011-02-25 20:32     ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-28  3:29       ` Lai Jiangshan
2011-02-28  9:47         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-03-01  0:13           ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-03-01 14:38             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-03-02  0:07               ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-03-02 22:41                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-28 23:51         ` Paul E. McKenney
2011-03-02  1:52           ` Lai Jiangshan
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 12/14] rcu: priority boosting for TREE_PREEMPT_RCU Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 13/14] rcu: eliminate unused boosting statistics Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  1:39 ` [PATCH RFC tip/core/rcu 14/14] rcu: Add boosting to TREE_PREEMPT_RCU tracing Paul E. McKenney
2011-02-23  3:07   ` Lai Jiangshan
2011-02-23 16:31     ` Paul E. McKenney

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