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From: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
To: John Stoffel <stoffel@casc.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:17:58 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5080.990551878@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <15114.37415.204391.420484@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
In-Reply-To: <15114.37415.204391.420484@gargle.gargle.HOWL>  <15113.31946.548249.53012@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20010520165952.A9622@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20010518113726.A29617@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20010518114922.C14309@thyrsus.com> <8485.990357599@redhat.com> <20010520111856.C3431@thyrsus.com> <15823.990372866@redhat.com> <20010520114411.A3600@thyrsus.com> <16267.990374170@redhat.com> <20010520131457.A3769@thyrsus.com> <18686.990380851@redhat.com> <20010520164700.H4488@thyrsus.com> <25499.990399116@redhat.com> <7938.990539153@redhat.com>


stoffel@casc.com said:
>  I don't agree with this, since the current CML1 scheme has wierd,
> unwanted and wrong dependencies already, which can't (or haven't) been
> found.   Since it would be put in during the 2.5.x branching, it's
> expected that things will/can/should break, so I don't think there
> will be any dire consequences.  

OK, I obviously don't expect the behaviour to be _exactly_ identical. If 
CML2 allows the authors' intent to be more closely adhered to, that's a good 
thing. But if the CML2 files exhibit behaviour which was clearly _not_ the 
intention of the original CML1, that is a change which should be made under 
separate cover.

> Such as what?  Do you have any examples here?  

The MAC/SCSI dependencies, which it seems were 'simplified' at the cost of
preventing certain combinations which were unlikely but valid, and which it
was possible to select with the original rules.

Also of course the whole class of dependencies which people are talking 
about introducing for the benefit of the hypothetical Aunt Tillie.

I don't know how many, if any, of this kind of changes are _actually_ made
in the current CML2 rules files - what I'm saying is that there _should_ be
none. Such large changes to the policy are entirely unrelated to CML2 
itself, and should be discussed separately. 

If your response to this is "But there are no such changes, you
misunderstood the MAC/SCSI dependency conversation and the Aunt Tillie stuff
was all hypothetical, what are you talking about?", then good - that's
precisely the answer I was after.

All I'm asking for is a clear agreement that within reason, the behaviour 
of the CML2 rules files immediately after CML2 is merged will match the 
intended behaviour of the CML1 rules prior to the merge.

--
dwmw2



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-05-22 17:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 160+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-05-05 23:27 CML2 design philosophy heads-up Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-06 12:58 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-07 17:59   ` Tom Rini
2001-05-07 21:57     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-08  9:44       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 12:42       ` Helge Hafting
2001-05-08  1:31     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08  1:43       ` Tom Rini
2001-05-08  1:56         ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08  6:57           ` David Weinehall
2001-05-08  7:00             ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08  6:59           ` Jamie Lokier
2001-05-08  7:15             ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 14:15               ` Rogier Wolff
2001-05-13 14:22 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-13 15:25   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-15 14:43     ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-17  7:26       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-17  7:47         ` Keith Owens
2001-05-17  9:35           ` Michael Meissner
2001-05-17 16:34             ` Tom Rini
2001-05-18  7:43               ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18  8:20                 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 14:53                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 14:06                     ` David Lang
2001-05-18 15:09                     ` Keith Owens
2001-05-18 15:19                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 15:39                       ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 15:58                         ` [kbuild-devel] " Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:01                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 16:34                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:43                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 16:45                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:17                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 17:22                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:25                                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-19  5:54                                 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-18 17:33                               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 18:25                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 19:13                                   ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 19:44                                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 20:38                                       ` Alan Cox
2001-05-19  1:49                               ` Aaron Lehmann
2001-05-18 19:12                       ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-18 15:11                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 15:26                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:34                         ` Charles Cazabon
2001-05-18 14:30                           ` David Lang
2001-05-18 15:47                             ` Charles Cazabon
2001-05-18 15:42                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-19  5:44                           ` Ben Ford
     [not found]                           ` <mailman.990252541.15890.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2001-05-19  6:40                             ` Pete Zaitcev
2001-05-19 10:10                               ` Ben Ford
2001-05-19 10:55                                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-19 16:13                                 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-19 21:54                                   ` Ben Ford
2001-05-20  0:08                                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 15:37                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 15:49                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:16                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:04                               ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 11:19                           ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 15:18                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 15:34                               ` Keith Owens
2001-05-20 15:34                             ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 15:44                               ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 15:56                               ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 17:14                                 ` Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21  0:45                                   ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21  9:14                                   ` Helge Hafting
2001-05-21 11:32                                   ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-22 20:38                                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 12:15                                   ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21 12:31                                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 23:11                                     ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-20 17:47                                 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 20:47                                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 20:59                                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-20 21:10                                     ` Robert M. Love
2001-05-21  3:38                                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-20 22:51                                     ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21  1:13                                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21  6:41                                       ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21 10:04                                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 11:05                                         ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21 20:38                                       ` John Stoffel
2001-05-22  0:59                                         ` Keith Owens
2001-05-22  9:24                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-23  1:51                                             ` Keith Owens
2001-05-21 23:00                                       ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-22 13:45                                       ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-22 16:21                                         ` John Stoffel
2001-05-22 17:17                                         ` David Woodhouse [this message]
2001-05-21  3:33                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-20 20:59                                   ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 18:31                                 ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-20 20:13                                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:59                       ` CML2 design philosophy heads-up Jonathan Morton
2001-05-18 16:17                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 17:35                         ` Mike Galbraith
2001-05-18 20:03                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 17:07                       ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-18 15:38                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 16:04                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:09                         ` [kbuild-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 16:43                           ` Michael Meissner
2001-05-18 17:13                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:22                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 17:42                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 17:42                                 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 18:28                                 ` John Cowan
2001-05-18 17:23                         ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 17:41                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:54                     ` Christer Weinigel
2001-05-18 16:02                     ` [kbuild-devel] " Kai Germaschewski
2001-05-18 19:12                 ` frank
2001-05-15 20:32     ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-15 21:33       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:19         ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-18 15:37           ` Justin Carlson
2001-05-18 15:42           ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:53             ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 15:51           ` [kbuild-devel] " John Cowan
2001-05-18 15:58             ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 16:00               ` John Cowan
2001-05-18 17:15                 ` Mike Castle
2001-05-18 17:28                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-21  0:29             ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21  1:58               ` Mike Castle
2001-05-21  6:33                 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-21  9:55                   ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21 16:59                   ` Mike Castle
2001-05-21 17:03                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21  7:21                 ` arjan
2001-05-21  2:10               ` Robert M. Love
2001-05-21  2:35                 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-05-21  5:01                   ` Mike Galbraith
2001-05-21  9:58                   ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21 15:36                     ` Tom Rini
2001-05-21 16:24                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21  6:11                 ` Mike A. Harris
2001-05-21 12:08                   ` Robert M. Love
2001-05-21 12:29                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 16:39                       ` Brent D. Norris
2001-05-21 17:48                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 15:18                   ` Wichert Akkerman
2001-05-21 15:21                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 15:52                     ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-21  3:47               ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-18 16:22           ` Steven Cole
     [not found]   ` <0105210958040I.10237@spc.esa.lanl.gov>
     [not found]     ` <20010521090130.F9965@opus.bloom.county>
2001-05-21 16:13       ` Steven Cole
2001-05-18 17:10 ` Ruth Ivimey-Cook
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-05-21  3:01 Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy Ben Bridgwater
2001-05-21 17:36 Wayne.Brown
2001-05-21 17:58 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 20:00   ` Urban Widmark
2001-05-22  2:42     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-22 14:42     ` john slee
2001-05-22 17:28       ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-21 19:05 Wayne.Brown

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