make oldnoconfig fix?

make oldnoconfig fix?

[David Cohen]

Hi,

Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
I currently have need to it :)
I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
option is reported as a known bug, right?

Br, David Cohen

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[Yann E. MORIN]

David, All,

On 2013-11-11 10:11 -0800, David Cohen spake thusly:
> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
> I currently have need to it :)
> I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
> option is reported as a known bug, right?

Sorry, I don't understand what your problem is.

Care to explain in details what problem you have:
  - what you start with
  - what you do
  - what you get
  - what you expected

So we can try to reproduce the issue and investigate what is wrong.

Since you mention an existing thread, please add a pointer (URL) to
this thread in the archives (Use: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kbuild ).

Regards,
Yann E. MORIN.

-- 
.-----------------.--------------------.------------------.--------------------.
|  Yann E. MORIN  | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: |
| +33 662 376 056 | Software  Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN     |  ___               |
| +33 223 225 172 `------------.-------:  X  AGAINST      |  \e/  There is no  |
| http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL    |   v   conspiracy.  |
'------------------------------^-------^------------------^--------------------'

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[David Cohen]

On 11/11/2013 10:13 AM, Yann E. MORIN wrote:
> David, All,

Hi Yann,

>
> On 2013-11-11 10:11 -0800, David Cohen spake thusly:
>> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
>> I currently have need to it :)
>> I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
>> option is reported as a known bug, right?
>
> Sorry, I don't understand what your problem is.

Maybe I assumed it was more 'known' then it actually is :)

>
> Care to explain in details what problem you have:
>    - what you start with
>    - what you do
>    - what you get
>    - what you expected

The bug with 'oldnoconfig' is: 'make oldnoconfig' is just an alias to
'olddefconfig'. Any non-existent config is defined with its default
value instead of 'N'.

I work with embedded platforms. I need to maintain a set of defconfigs
for different products (customers some times want tailored configs, so
creating a generic one isn't an option always).

In order to have full control of the .config generated out of
defconfigs, I don't allow any CONFIG_ to be selected implicitly. So
everytime a Kconfig is changed in our internal tree, we need to update
all defconfigs either with CONFIG_... = [y|n] or # CONFIG_... is not set

If I managed to get 'make oldnoconfig' working, I could not care about
# CONFIG_... is not set and internal and changes to defconfigs would be
easily to understand and review.

>
> So we can try to reproduce the issue and investigate what is wrong.

All we need to know is explained in this commit:

commit fb16d8912db5268f29706010ecafff74b971c58d
Author: Adam Lee <adam8157@gmail.com>
Date:   Sat Sep 1 01:05:17 2012 +0800

     kconfig: replace 'oldnoconfig' with 'olddefconfig', and keep the 
old name as an alias

     As 67d34a6a391369269a2e5dba8a5f42cc4cd50231 said, 'oldnoconfig' doesn't
     set new symbols to 'n', but instead sets it to their default values.

     So, this patch replaces 'oldnoconfig' with 'olddefconfig', stop making
     people confused, and keep the old name 'oldnoconfig' as an alias,
     because people already are dependent on its behavior with the
     counter-intuitive name.

     Signed-off-by: Adam Lee <adam8157@gmail.com>
     Signed-off-by: Michal Marek <mmarek@suse.cz>


>
> Since you mention an existing thread, please add a pointer (URL) to
> this thread in the archives (Use: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kbuild ).

This is the thread I was talking about: 
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kbuild.devel/8560

Master Yoda promised to fix it when the problem gets bigger :)

Br, David

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[David Cohen]

On 11/11/2013 10:55 AM, David Cohen wrote:
> On 11/11/2013 10:13 AM, Yann E. MORIN wrote:
>> David, All,
> 
> Hi Yann,
> 
>>
>> On 2013-11-11 10:11 -0800, David Cohen spake thusly:
>>> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
>>> I currently have need to it :)
>>> I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
>>> option is reported as a known bug, right?
>>
>> Sorry, I don't understand what your problem is.
> 
> Maybe I assumed it was more 'known' then it actually is :)
> 
>>
>> Care to explain in details what problem you have:
>>    - what you start with
>>    - what you do
>>    - what you get
>>    - what you expected
> 
> The bug with 'oldnoconfig' is: 'make oldnoconfig' is just an alias to
> 'olddefconfig'. Any non-existent config is defined with its default
> value instead of 'N'.
> 
> I work with embedded platforms. I need to maintain a set of defconfigs
> for different products (customers some times want tailored configs, so
> creating a generic one isn't an option always).
> 
> In order to have full control of the .config generated out of
> defconfigs, I don't allow any CONFIG_ to be selected implicitly. So
> everytime a Kconfig is changed in our internal tree, we need to update
> all defconfigs either with CONFIG_... = [y|n] or # CONFIG_... is not set
> 
> If I managed to get 'make oldnoconfig' working, I could not care about
> # CONFIG_... is not set and internal and changes to defconfigs would be
> easily to understand and review.
> 
>>
>> So we can try to reproduce the issue and investigate what is wrong.
> 
> All we need to know is explained in this commit:
> 
> commit fb16d8912db5268f29706010ecafff74b971c58d
> Author: Adam Lee <adam8157@gmail.com>
> Date:   Sat Sep 1 01:05:17 2012 +0800
> 
>     kconfig: replace 'oldnoconfig' with 'olddefconfig', and keep the old
> name as an alias
> 
>     As 67d34a6a391369269a2e5dba8a5f42cc4cd50231 said, 'oldnoconfig' doesn't
>     set new symbols to 'n', but instead sets it to their default values.
> 
>     So, this patch replaces 'oldnoconfig' with 'olddefconfig', stop making
>     people confused, and keep the old name 'oldnoconfig' as an alias,
>     because people already are dependent on its behavior with the
>     counter-intuitive name.
> 
>     Signed-off-by: Adam Lee <adam8157@gmail.com>
>     Signed-off-by: Michal Marek <mmarek@suse.cz>
> 
> 
>>
>> Since you mention an existing thread, please add a pointer (URL) to
>> this thread in the archives (Use: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kbuild ).
> 
> This is the thread I was talking about:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kbuild.devel/8560
> 
> Master Yoda promised to fix it when the problem gets bigger :)

Any comments here? :)

Br, David Cohen

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[Rob Landley]

On 11/11/2013 12:55:37 PM, David Cohen wrote:
> On 11/11/2013 10:13 AM, Yann E. MORIN wrote:
>> David, All,
> 
> Hi Yann,
> 
>> 
>> On 2013-11-11 10:11 -0800, David Cohen spake thusly:
>>> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
>>> I currently have need to it :)
>>> I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
>>> option is reported as a known bug, right?
>> 
>> Sorry, I don't understand what your problem is.
> 
> Maybe I assumed it was more 'known' then it actually is :)
> 
>> 
>> Care to explain in details what problem you have:
>>    - what you start with
>>    - what you do
>>    - what you get
>>    - what you expected
> 
> The bug with 'oldnoconfig' is: 'make oldnoconfig' is just an alias to
> 'olddefconfig'. Any non-existent config is defined with its default
> value instead of 'N'.
> 
> I work with embedded platforms. I need to maintain a set of defconfigs
> for different products (customers some times want tailored configs, so
> creating a generic one isn't an option always).

make allnoconfig KCONFIG_ALLCONFIG=oldconfigfile

I use this trick in  
http://landley.net/aboriginal/FAQ.html#dev_miniconfig

And yes, I submitted it upstream a couple times last decade, with  
documentation and everything:

   https://lwn.net/Articles/160497/
   https://lwn.net/Articles/161086/
   http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0607.0/1805.html

Rob

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[David Cohen]

On 12/02/2013 06:58 PM, Rob Landley wrote:
> On 11/11/2013 12:55:37 PM, David Cohen wrote:
>> On 11/11/2013 10:13 AM, Yann E. MORIN wrote:
>>> David, All,
>>
>> Hi Yann,
>>
>>>
>>> On 2013-11-11 10:11 -0800, David Cohen spake thusly:
>>>> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
>>>> I currently have need to it :)
>>>> I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
>>>> option is reported as a known bug, right?
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't understand what your problem is.
>>
>> Maybe I assumed it was more 'known' then it actually is :)
>>
>>>
>>> Care to explain in details what problem you have:
>>>    - what you start with
>>>    - what you do
>>>    - what you get
>>>    - what you expected
>>
>> The bug with 'oldnoconfig' is: 'make oldnoconfig' is just an alias to
>> 'olddefconfig'. Any non-existent config is defined with its default
>> value instead of 'N'.
>>
>> I work with embedded platforms. I need to maintain a set of defconfigs
>> for different products (customers some times want tailored configs, so
>> creating a generic one isn't an option always).
> 
> make allnoconfig KCONFIG_ALLCONFIG=oldconfigfile

I'll give it a try. Thanks!

> 
> I use this trick in http://landley.net/aboriginal/FAQ.html#dev_miniconfig
> 
> And yes, I submitted it upstream a couple times last decade, with
> documentation and everything:

You could send it again.
But maybe oldnoconfig would be a better name WRT current standard.

Br, David

> 
>   https://lwn.net/Articles/160497/
>   https://lwn.net/Articles/161086/
>   http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0607.0/1805.html
> 
> Rob

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[Rob Landley]

On 12/05/13 18:10, David Cohen wrote:
> On 12/02/2013 06:58 PM, Rob Landley wrote:
>> On 11/11/2013 12:55:37 PM, David Cohen wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2013 10:13 AM, Yann E. MORIN wrote:
>>>> David, All,
>>>
>>> Hi Yann,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-11-11 10:11 -0800, David Cohen spake thusly:
>>>>> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
>>>>> I currently have need to it :)
>>>>> I've tracked a thread fixing 'make olddefconfig' where 'oldnoconfig'
>>>>> option is reported as a known bug, right?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I don't understand what your problem is.
>>>
>>> Maybe I assumed it was more 'known' then it actually is :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Care to explain in details what problem you have:
>>>>     - what you start with
>>>>     - what you do
>>>>     - what you get
>>>>     - what you expected
>>>
>>> The bug with 'oldnoconfig' is: 'make oldnoconfig' is just an alias to
>>> 'olddefconfig'. Any non-existent config is defined with its default
>>> value instead of 'N'.
>>>
>>> I work with embedded platforms. I need to maintain a set of defconfigs
>>> for different products (customers some times want tailored configs, so
>>> creating a generic one isn't an option always).
>>
>> make allnoconfig KCONFIG_ALLCONFIG=oldconfigfile
>
> I'll give it a try. Thanks!
>
>>
>> I use this trick in http://landley.net/aboriginal/FAQ.html#dev_miniconfig
>>
>> And yes, I submitted it upstream a couple times last decade, with
>> documentation and everything:
>
> You could send it again.

I linked you to three times I sent it:

 >>    https://lwn.net/Articles/160497/
 >>    https://lwn.net/Articles/161086/
 >>    http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0607.0/1805.html

Plus I made sure it worked in busybox and uClibc:

http://lists.uclibc.org/pipermail/uclibc/2007-March/038469.html

Other people picked up on it:

http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/show-entry.php?id=109
http://techoverflow.net/blog/2013/07/09/user-mode-linux-for-beginners-part-1-setup-and-first-vm/

Somebody even added it to the Documentation directory a few years back 
(while I wasn't looking):

https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kbuild/kconfig.txt

The problem was the kbuild maintainer at the time categorically rejected 
the idea in a very long thread. (The replies to that "take 2" lasted two 
weeks.) He was the maintainer, his no was final, so I went off and did 
other things.

> But maybe oldnoconfig would be a better name WRT current standard.
>
> Br, David

As you can see from the rapid response time, I'm a touch overwhelmed of 
late.

I've been offering miniconfig stuff to people for years, but the 
upstream guys had zero interest when I pinged 'em and still don't, last 
I checked. When Linus yanked the giant forest of arm defconfigs he 
decided to have kconfig snippets generate different defconfigs instead 
of miniconfig (which turns out not to be particularly maintainable, but 
oh well).

If somebody else wanted to take the basic concept and push it upstream, 
I'd happily review and ack, but I haven't got it in me to replicate the 
7 years the initramfs guy spent convincing upstream to Do It My Way. I 
scratch my own itch, offer it to other people, they say no, and after 
about the third attempt I go do other things. My todo list runneth over, 
no shortage of other things...

Rob

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[Felipe Contreras]

Hi David,

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM, David Cohen
<david.a.cohen@linux.intel.com> wrote:

> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
> I currently have need to it :)

I actually rely on this, but didn't know there was this option, this
is what I've been doing since a long time:

  % echo '' | make oldconfig

But it's very hacky and I see tons of errors reported, but it does
what I expect.

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: make oldnoconfig fix?

[David Cohen]

Hi Felipe,

On 11/11/2013 10:20 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM, David Cohen
> <david.a.cohen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a plan to fix 'make oldnoconfig' option?
>> I currently have need to it :)
>
> I actually rely on this, but didn't know there was this option, this
> is what I've been doing since a long time:
>
>    % echo '' | make oldconfig
>
> But it's very hacky and I see tons of errors reported, but it does
> what I expect.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

Br, David