Hello everyone <3

Hello everyone <3

[noisyb]

I'll troll and spread a little FUD on behalf of people who have better 
manners.. :)

This will only /reference/ a few circumstances in user-space and then 
ask an important question regarding kernel-space.

Recently, the user-space side of operating systems (that use the Linux 
kernel) have been streamlined to be more appealing to an unprofessional 
audience.

People who are probably not caring or aware of how operating systems 
function or what e.g. "Ready for the desktop." is supposed to even mean.

At the same time these valuable people are impressing their friends, 
neighbours and strangers (who happened to walk by on the road) with 
shorter reboot cycles of their streamlined operating system.

A key package in this streamlining of operating systems (that use the 
Linux kernel) is systemd, another iteration of the ideas that also led 
to the now defunct HAL project from a few years ago.

systemd promises to remove/hide burdensome transparency (AKA complexity) 
of the operating system from unprofessional users into an unauditioned 
program that uses proprietary config files.

I was so lucky so get in contact with systemd package maintainers of a 
popular operating system and they told me that they don't have enough 
people to keep up with the increasing speed of systemd updates/releases.

So NO auditioning of systemd is taking place in one of the most 
important operating systems that uses the Linux kernel and uses the 
trademark "Linux" in the promotional material.

The media is also still using "Linux operating system" or "Linux 
distribution" instead of just "operating system (that uses the Linux 
kernel)" to reference to these operating systems that are aimed at 
unprofessional users and where crucial parts are not auditioned.

The problem is that all users experience the streamlined user-space but 
call it "Linux".

Question: Wouldn't it be a good idea to enforce the Linux trademark 
(somewhen) in a way that all these streamlined operating systems use the 
word "Linux" more carefully (or not at all) in their promotional 
material? To make sure "correlation" isn't (deliberately) twisted into 
"causation" by the media /if/ the streamlining trend starts to cause 
serious regressions in transparency and reliability?

Or is that too much politics for the weekend?


Dirk

Re: Hello everyone <3

[Chuck Ebbert]

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 02:00:34 +0200
noisyb@a6.25u.com wrote:

> Question: Wouldn't it be a good idea to enforce the Linux trademark 
> (somewhen) in a way that all these streamlined operating systems use the 
> word "Linux" more carefully (or not at all) in their promotional 
> material? To make sure "correlation" isn't (deliberately) twisted into 
> "causation" by the media /if/ the streamlining trend starts to cause 
> serious regressions in transparency and reliability?
> 
> Or is that too much politics for the weekend?

Concern troll is concerned.

Re: Hello everyone <3

[Austin S Hemmelgarn]

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On 2015-08-15 20:50, Chuck Ebbert wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 02:00:34 +0200
> noisyb@a6.25u.com wrote:
>
>> Question: Wouldn't it be a good idea to enforce the Linux trademark
>> (somewhen) in a way that all these streamlined operating systems use the
>> word "Linux" more carefully (or not at all) in their promotional
>> material? To make sure "correlation" isn't (deliberately) twisted into
>> "causation" by the media /if/ the streamlining trend starts to cause
>> serious regressions in transparency and reliability?
>>
>> Or is that too much politics for the weekend?
>
> Concern troll is concerned.
The way he stated his concern is of course not well thought out if he 
wants anyone to act on it, and I do not at all condone it, but his point 
is valid, people associating the regressions and instabilities that 
systemd (or any other software that runs on Linux) with Linux itself is 
not good for the public perception of Linux.

There are already a lot of people who associate the insanity that is 
userspace library version incompatibilities (GNOME, KDE, GTK+, and Qt, 
just to name a few) with the term 'Linux', and many people don't 
differentiate between the Linux kernel and the userspace on top of it 
unless that userspace is actively hiding the unixisms from the user 
(SteamOS and ChromeOS being a excellent example of doing such 
abstractions right).


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Re: Hello everyone <3

[noisyb]

It doesn't matter anymore /how/ i state my concern.

The concern-game is over now.

Operating systems (that use the Linux kernel) have gained so much 
popularty that they stepped over a certain threshold.

That threshold is either "being attractive to money (corruption)" or, 
since people who develop for operating systems (that use the Linux 
kernel) are mostly not in it for the money, that threshold is "being 
attractive to people with e.g. a narcissistic personality disorder".

People who desperatly want to be remembered.

People who count the number of hits Google/Image delivers to their name.

Critics say that kernel-space and user-space have been wrapped into a 
svchost.exe now.
An indicator for someone (probably) building his little monopoly on "the 
final say".
If I was counting the number of hits Google/Image delivers to my name 
I'd be craving so much influence too.

Why care how my code looks or if I fix bugs or if my code is 
appropriately auditioned; when I have such a cool ego-vehicle that is 
used by so many people who do not care about any of this? Why care about 
Unix philosophies when the number of hits Google/Image delivers to my 
name are just more important to me?

Operating systems (that use the Linux kernel) were like classic music.

Now they are turned into pop music.

Because numbers attract people who care about numbers only.

It is a process that can't be stopped and which turns my "concern" into 
just an observation.


Dirk


On 08/17/15 15:04, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
> On 2015-08-15 20:50, Chuck Ebbert wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 02:00:34 +0200
>> noisyb@a6.25u.com wrote:
>>
>>> Question: Wouldn't it be a good idea to enforce the Linux trademark
>>> (somewhen) in a way that all these streamlined operating systems use the
>>> word "Linux" more carefully (or not at all) in their promotional
>>> material? To make sure "correlation" isn't (deliberately) twisted into
>>> "causation" by the media /if/ the streamlining trend starts to cause
>>> serious regressions in transparency and reliability?
>>>
>>> Or is that too much politics for the weekend?
>>
>> Concern troll is concerned.
> The way he stated his concern is of course not well thought out if he
> wants anyone to act on it, and I do not at all condone it, but his point
> is valid, people associating the regressions and instabilities that
> systemd (or any other software that runs on Linux) with Linux itself is
> not good for the public perception of Linux.
>
> There are already a lot of people who associate the insanity that is
> userspace library version incompatibilities (GNOME, KDE, GTK+, and Qt,
> just to name a few) with the term 'Linux', and many people don't
> differentiate between the Linux kernel and the userspace on top of it
> unless that userspace is actively hiding the unixisms from the user
> (SteamOS and ChromeOS being a excellent example of doing such
> abstractions right).
>