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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: noloader@gmail.com, "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	John Denker <jsd@av8n.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Stephan Mueller <smueller@chronox.de>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com>,
	cryptography@lakedaemon.net, linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: better patch for linux/bitops.h
Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 23:35:14 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <572AE9A2.20609@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAH8yC8n974Z=mvXPsLiZqYPkVjBqtR=nqYQ-jJo194ECmWkofA@mail.gmail.com>

On 05/04/16 21:03, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 11:50 PM, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>> ...
>> But instead of arguing over what works and doesn't, let's just create
>> the the test set and just try it on a wide range of compilers and
>> architectures, hmmm?
>
> What are the requirements? Here's a short list:
>
>    * No undefined behavior
>      - important because the compiler writers use the C standard
>    * Compiles to native "rotate IMMEDIATE" if the rotate amount is a
> "constant expression" and the machine provides it
>      - translates to a native rotate instruction if available
>      - "rotate IMM" can be 3 times faster than "rotate REG"
>      - do any architectures *not* provide a rotate?
>    * Compiles to native "rotate REGISTER" if the rotate is variable and
> the machine provides it
>      - do any architectures *not* provide a rotate?
>    * Constant time
>      - important to high-integrity code
>      - Non-security code paths probably don't care
>
> Maybe the first thing to do is provide a different rotates for the
> constant-time requirement when its in effect?
>

The disagreement here is the priority between these points.  In my very 
strong opinion, "no undefined behavior" per the C standard is way less 
important than the others; what matters is what gcc and the other 
compilers we care about do.  The kernel relies on various versions of 
C-standard-undefined behavior *all over the place*; for one thing 
sizeof(void *) == sizeof(size_t) == sizeof(unsigned long)!! but they are 
well-defined in the subcontext we care about.

(And no, not all architectures provide a rotate instruction.)

	-hpa

  reply	other threads:[~2016-05-05  6:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-05-02  6:26 [RFC PATCH 0/3] random: replace urandom pool with a CRNG Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-02  6:26 ` [PATCH 1/3] random: replace non-blocking pool with a Chacha20-based CRNG Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-03  8:50   ` Stephan Mueller
2016-05-04 16:54     ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-04 17:30     ` tytso
2016-05-04 17:52       ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-03  9:36   ` Stephan Mueller
2016-05-04  6:24     ` Stephan Mueller
2016-05-04 14:40   ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-04 17:49     ` tytso
2016-05-04 18:22       ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-04 18:29         ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-04 19:07           ` tytso
2016-05-04 20:53             ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-04 21:42             ` John Denker
2016-05-04 21:52               ` better patch for linux/bitops.h John Denker
2016-05-05  1:35                 ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-05  2:41                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-05  2:54                     ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-05  3:08                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-05  3:30                         ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-05  3:50                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-05  4:03                             ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-05  6:35                               ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2016-05-05 16:15                                 ` UB in general ... and linux/bitops.h in particular John Denker
2016-05-05 17:32                                   ` Andi Kleen
2016-05-06  2:25                                   ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-05 21:34                             ` better patch for linux/bitops.h Sandy Harris
2016-05-05 22:18                               ` tytso
2016-05-05 22:22                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-05 22:38                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-06  0:13                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-04 21:56               ` [PATCH 1/3] random: replace non-blocking pool with a Chacha20-based CRNG H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-04 22:06                 ` linux/bitops.h John Denker
2016-05-04 23:06                   ` linux/bitops.h Andi Kleen
2016-05-05  0:13                     ` linux/bitops.h John Denker
2016-05-05  1:20                     ` linux/bitops.h Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-05  1:27                       ` linux/bitops.h H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-05  0:30                   ` linux/bitops.h H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-05  0:48                     ` linux/bitops.h Linus Torvalds
2016-05-06 20:08                       ` linux/bitops.h Sasha Levin
2016-05-06 20:07                     ` linux/bitops.h Sasha Levin
2016-05-06 20:25                       ` linux/bitops.h H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-06 20:30                       ` linux/bitops.h H. Peter Anvin
2016-05-02  6:26 ` [PATCH 2/3] random: make /dev/urandom scalable for silly userspace programs Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-02  7:00   ` Stephan Mueller
2016-05-02 12:50     ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-02 13:48       ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-02 13:53         ` Stephan Mueller
2016-05-02  6:26 ` [PATCH 3/3] random: add interrupt callback to VMBus IRQ handler Theodore Ts'o
2016-05-02  9:00   ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-05-02  9:14     ` Stephan Mueller
2016-05-02 12:56       ` Theodore Ts'o

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