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From: Andreas Hindborg <a.hindborg@kernel.org>
To: "Boqun Feng" <boqun.feng@gmail.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org,
	lkmm@lists.linux.dev, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,
	"Miguel Ojeda" <ojeda@kernel.org>,
	"Alex Gaynor" <alex.gaynor@gmail.com>,
	"Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>,
	"Björn Roy Baron" <bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com>,
	"Benno Lossin" <lossin@kernel.org>,
	"Alice Ryhl" <aliceryhl@google.com>,
	"Trevor Gross" <tmgross@umich.edu>,
	"Danilo Krummrich" <dakr@kernel.org>,
	"Will Deacon" <will@kernel.org>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Mark Rutland" <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	"Wedson Almeida Filho" <wedsonaf@gmail.com>,
	"Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	"Lyude Paul" <lyude@redhat.com>, "Ingo Molnar" <mingo@kernel.org>,
	"Mitchell Levy" <levymitchell0@gmail.com>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 04/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add generic atomics
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 11:52:35 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87jz4tzhcs.fsf@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aF6yRIixTPx5YZbA@Mac.home> (Boqun Feng's message of "Fri, 27 Jun 2025 08:01:24 -0700")

"Boqun Feng" <boqun.feng@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 02:15:35PM +0200, Andreas Hindborg wrote:
>> "Boqun Feng" <boqun.feng@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > +
>> > +impl<T: AllowAtomic> Atomic<T> {
>> > +    /// Creates a new atomic.
>> > +    pub const fn new(v: T) -> Self {
>> > +        Self(Opaque::new(v))
>> > +    }
>> > +
>> > +    /// Creates a reference to [`Self`] from a pointer.
>> > +    ///
>> > +    /// # Safety
>> > +    ///
>> > +    /// - `ptr` has to be a valid pointer.
>> > +    /// - `ptr` has to be valid for both reads and writes for the whole lifetime `'a`.
>> > +    /// - For the whole lifetime of '`a`, other accesses to the object cannot cause data races
>> > +    ///   (defined by [`LKMM`]) against atomic operations on the returned reference.
>>
>> I feel the wording is a bit tangled here. How about something along the
>> lines of
>>
>>   For the duration of `'a`, all accesses to the object must be atomic.
>>
>
> Well, a non-atomic read vs an atomic read is not a data race (for both
> Rust memory model and LKMM), so your proposal is overly restricted.

OK, my mistake then. I thought mixing marked and plain accesses would be
considered a race. I got hat from
`tools/memory-model/Documentation/explanation.txt`:

    A "data race"
    occurs when there are two memory accesses such that:

    1.	they access the same location,

    2.	at least one of them is a store,

    3.	at least one of them is plain,

    4.	they occur on different CPUs (or in different threads on the
      same CPU), and

    5.	they execute concurrently.

I did not study all that documentation, so I might be missing a point or
two.


Best regards,
Andreas Hindborg



  reply	other threads:[~2025-06-30  9:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 82+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-06-18 16:49 [PATCH v5 00/10] LKMM generic atomics in Rust Boqun Feng
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 01/10] rust: Introduce atomic API helpers Boqun Feng
2025-06-26  8:44   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-27 14:00     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 02/10] rust: sync: Add basic atomic operation mapping framework Boqun Feng
2025-06-26  8:50   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-26 10:17   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-27 14:30     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 03/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add ordering annotation types Boqun Feng
2025-06-19 10:31   ` Peter Zijlstra
2025-06-19 12:19     ` Alice Ryhl
2025-06-19 13:29     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-19 14:32       ` Peter Zijlstra
2025-06-19 15:00         ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-19 15:10           ` Peter Zijlstra
2025-06-19 15:15             ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-19 18:04           ` Alan Stern
2025-06-21 11:18   ` Gary Guo
2025-06-23  2:48     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-26 12:36   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-27 14:34     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-27 14:44       ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 04/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add generic atomics Boqun Feng
2025-06-21 11:32   ` Gary Guo
2025-06-23  5:19     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-23 11:54       ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-23 12:58         ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-23 18:30       ` Gary Guo
2025-06-23 19:09         ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-23 23:27           ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-24 16:35             ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-26 13:54               ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-04 21:22                 ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-04 22:05                   ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-04 22:30                     ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-04 22:49                       ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-04 23:21                         ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-04 20:25           ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-04 20:45             ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-04 21:17               ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-04 22:38                 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-04 23:21                   ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-05  8:04                     ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-05 15:38                       ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-05 21:43                         ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-26 12:15   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-27 15:01     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-30  9:52       ` Andreas Hindborg [this message]
2025-06-30 14:44         ` Alan Stern
2025-07-01  8:54           ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-01 14:50             ` Boqun Feng
2025-07-02  8:33               ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 05/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add atomic {cmp,}xchg operations Boqun Feng
2025-06-21 11:37   ` Gary Guo
2025-06-23  5:23     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-26 13:12   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-28  3:03     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-30 10:16       ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-30 14:51         ` Alan Stern
2025-06-30 15:12           ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-27  8:58   ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-27 13:53     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-28  6:12       ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-28  7:31         ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-28  8:00           ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-30 15:24             ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-30 15:27               ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-30 15:50               ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 06/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add the framework of arithmetic operations Boqun Feng
2025-06-21 11:41   ` Gary Guo
2025-06-26 12:39   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-28  3:04     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 07/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add Atomic<u{32,64}> Boqun Feng
2025-06-26 12:47   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 08/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add Atomic<{usize,isize}> Boqun Feng
2025-06-26 12:49   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 09/10] rust: sync: atomic: Add Atomic<*mut T> Boqun Feng
2025-06-18 16:49 ` [PATCH v5 10/10] rust: sync: Add memory barriers Boqun Feng
2025-06-26 13:36   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-28  3:42     ` Boqun Feng
2025-06-30  9:54       ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-18 20:22 ` [PATCH v5 00/10] LKMM generic atomics in Rust Alice Ryhl

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