[PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Jani Nikula]

Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.

Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.

Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>

---

Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
type").

I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
the whole idea came from!

Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
tracker or something else.

[1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com
---
 MAINTAINERS | 3 ++-
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
index f7fd00ef1323..8f55d44b5b26 100644
--- a/MAINTAINERS
+++ b/MAINTAINERS
@@ -77,7 +77,8 @@ Descriptions of section entries:
 	Q: Patchwork web based patch tracking system site
 	T: SCM tree type and location.
 	   Type is one of: git, hg, quilt, stgit, topgit
-	B: Bug tracking system location.
+	B: URI for where to file bugs. A web-page with detailed bug
+	   filing info, a direct bug tracker link, or a mailto: URI.
 	S: Status, one of the following:
 	   Supported:	Someone is actually paid to look after this.
 	   Maintained:	Someone actually looks after it.
-- 
2.1.4

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Rafael J. Wysocki]

On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
> 
> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
> 
> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
> 
> ---
> 
> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
> type").
> 
> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
> the whole idea came from!
> 
> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
> tracker or something else.
> 
> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com

I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that.

That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified description
below.  Namely, if mailing list information is already provided (the M: entry), it
obviously should be suitable for reporting bugs too, so I'm not sure about what
the "or a mailto: URI" role is?

> ---
>  MAINTAINERS | 3 ++-
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
> 
> diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
> index f7fd00ef1323..8f55d44b5b26 100644
> --- a/MAINTAINERS
> +++ b/MAINTAINERS
> @@ -77,7 +77,8 @@ Descriptions of section entries:
>  	Q: Patchwork web based patch tracking system site
>  	T: SCM tree type and location.
>  	   Type is one of: git, hg, quilt, stgit, topgit
> -	B: Bug tracking system location.
> +	B: URI for where to file bugs. A web-page with detailed bug
> +	   filing info, a direct bug tracker link, or a mailto: URI.
>  	S: Status, one of the following:
>  	   Supported:	Someone is actually paid to look after this.
>  	   Maintained:	Someone actually looks after it.
> 

Thanks,
Rafael

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Jani Nikula]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
>> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
>> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
>> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
>> 
>> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
>> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
>> 
>> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
>> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
>> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
>> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
>> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
>> type").
>> 
>> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
>> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
>> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
>> the whole idea came from!
>> 
>> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
>> tracker or something else.
>> 
>> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com
>
> I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that.
>
> That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified
> description below.  Namely, if mailing list information is already
> provided (the M: entry), it obviously should be suitable for reporting
> bugs too, so I'm not sure about what the "or a mailto: URI" role is?

The absence of "B:" does not indicate that the mailing list in "M:" is
the preferred way of reporting bugs to the driver/subsystem. I believe
there are plenty of subsystems that don't really care about bugs
reported at https://bugzilla.kernel.org; they could use this to direct
the users to the mailing list. The subsystem could use a *different*
list for reporting bugs. A mailto: URI could even include a preferred
subject prefix, or Cc's [1].

The main point of "B:" is to let the maintainers communicate their
preferred way of receiving bug reports to the users, especially when the
mailing list(s) or https://bugzilla.kernel.org are *not* preferred.

BR,
Jani.

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc6068.txt


>
>> ---
>>  MAINTAINERS | 3 ++-
>>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
>> 
>> diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
>> index f7fd00ef1323..8f55d44b5b26 100644
>> --- a/MAINTAINERS
>> +++ b/MAINTAINERS
>> @@ -77,7 +77,8 @@ Descriptions of section entries:
>>  	Q: Patchwork web based patch tracking system site
>>  	T: SCM tree type and location.
>>  	   Type is one of: git, hg, quilt, stgit, topgit
>> -	B: Bug tracking system location.
>> +	B: URI for where to file bugs. A web-page with detailed bug
>> +	   filing info, a direct bug tracker link, or a mailto: URI.
>>  	S: Status, one of the following:
>>  	   Supported:	Someone is actually paid to look after this.
>>  	   Maintained:	Someone actually looks after it.
>> 
>
> Thanks,
> Rafael
>

-- 
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Technology Center

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Rafael J. Wysocki]

On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:35:07 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> > On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
> >> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
> >> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
> >> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
> >> 
> >> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
> >> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
> >> 
> >> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
> >> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> >> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
> >> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
> >> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
> >> type").
> >> 
> >> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
> >> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
> >> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
> >> the whole idea came from!
> >> 
> >> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
> >> tracker or something else.
> >> 
> >> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com
> >
> > I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that.
> >
> > That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified
> > description below.  Namely, if mailing list information is already
> > provided (the M: entry), it obviously should be suitable for reporting
> > bugs too, so I'm not sure about what the "or a mailto: URI" role is?
> 
> The absence of "B:" does not indicate that the mailing list in "M:" is
> the preferred way of reporting bugs to the driver/subsystem.

Well, if I had a development mailing, why wouldn't I want to get bug reports to it?

How useful would that be, really?

And would it actually make any sense?

To me, the meaning of B: should be where to file bugs in addition to and
not istead of the M: list.  Which is why I used this particular description in
the first place.

> I believe there are plenty of subsystems that don't really care about bugs
> reported at https://bugzilla.kernel.org; they could use this to direct
> the users to the mailing list. The subsystem could use a *different*
> list for reporting bugs. A mailto: URI could even include a preferred
> subject prefix, or Cc's [1].

But why really?

Why to complicate things more than necessary?

You seem to be claiming that the one-liner description I used is somehow
insufficient, but I'm sort of failing to see that.

> The main point of "B:" is to let the maintainers communicate their
> preferred way of receiving bug reports to the users, especially when the
> mailing list(s) or https://bugzilla.kernel.org are *not* preferred.

So here's where we differ.

It may or may not be preferred and to me it just means "there is one more
place to report bugs for this in addition to the mailing list".

Because I'm not going to refuse to respond to bug reports sent to the mailing
lists in the M: entries for the subsystems I maintain in any case.  And I sort of
can't imagine how anyone responsible enough could do that.

Thanks,
Rafael

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Jani Nikula]

On Thu, 08 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:35:07 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
>> > On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
>> >> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
>> >> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
>> >> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
>> >> 
>> >> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
>> >> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
>> >> 
>> >> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
>> >> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
>> >> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
>> >> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
>> >> 
>> >> ---
>> >> 
>> >> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
>> >> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
>> >> type").
>> >> 
>> >> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
>> >> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
>> >> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
>> >> the whole idea came from!
>> >> 
>> >> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
>> >> tracker or something else.
>> >> 
>> >> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com
>> >
>> > I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that.
>> >
>> > That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified
>> > description below.  Namely, if mailing list information is already
>> > provided (the M: entry), it obviously should be suitable for reporting
>> > bugs too, so I'm not sure about what the "or a mailto: URI" role is?
>> 
>> The absence of "B:" does not indicate that the mailing list in "M:" is
>> the preferred way of reporting bugs to the driver/subsystem.
>
> Well, if I had a development mailing, why wouldn't I want to get bug reports to it?
>
> How useful would that be, really?
>
> And would it actually make any sense?
>
> To me, the meaning of B: should be where to file bugs in addition to and
> not istead of the M: list.  Which is why I used this particular description in
> the first place.
>
>> I believe there are plenty of subsystems that don't really care about bugs
>> reported at https://bugzilla.kernel.org; they could use this to direct
>> the users to the mailing list. The subsystem could use a *different*
>> list for reporting bugs. A mailto: URI could even include a preferred
>> subject prefix, or Cc's [1].
>
> But why really?
>
> Why to complicate things more than necessary?
>
> You seem to be claiming that the one-liner description I used is somehow
> insufficient, but I'm sort of failing to see that.
>
>> The main point of "B:" is to let the maintainers communicate their
>> preferred way of receiving bug reports to the users, especially when the
>> mailing list(s) or https://bugzilla.kernel.org are *not* preferred.
>
> So here's where we differ.
>
> It may or may not be preferred and to me it just means "there is one more
> place to report bugs for this in addition to the mailing list".
>
> Because I'm not going to refuse to respond to bug reports sent to the mailing
> lists in the M: entries for the subsystems I maintain in any case.  And I sort of
> can't imagine how anyone responsible enough could do that.

Over at drm/i915 we *prefer* to have the bugs reported at
https://bugs.freedesktop.org. Not the mailing list, not at
https://bugzilla.kernel.org. The last two happen to be the current
default, and we prefer not to use either of them.

Why do you think you know better than us what we prefer?

Why do you think our *preference* for bugs reported at fdo makes us
irresponsible and/or refuse to respond to bugs on the mailing list?

Please only speak for yourself, and don't try to decide for us.


BR,
Jani.


-- 
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Technology Center

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Rafael J. Wysocki]

On Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:55:59 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:35:07 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
> >> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> >> > On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
> >> >> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
> >> >> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
> >> >> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
> >> >> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
> >> >> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> >> >> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
> >> >> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
> >> >> 
> >> >> ---
> >> >> 
> >> >> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
> >> >> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
> >> >> type").
> >> >> 
> >> >> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
> >> >> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
> >> >> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
> >> >> the whole idea came from!
> >> >> 
> >> >> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
> >> >> tracker or something else.
> >> >> 
> >> >> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com
> >> >
> >> > I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that.
> >> >
> >> > That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified
> >> > description below.  Namely, if mailing list information is already
> >> > provided (the M: entry), it obviously should be suitable for reporting
> >> > bugs too, so I'm not sure about what the "or a mailto: URI" role is?
> >> 
> >> The absence of "B:" does not indicate that the mailing list in "M:" is
> >> the preferred way of reporting bugs to the driver/subsystem.
> >
> > Well, if I had a development mailing, why wouldn't I want to get bug reports to it?
> >
> > How useful would that be, really?
> >
> > And would it actually make any sense?
> >
> > To me, the meaning of B: should be where to file bugs in addition to and
> > not istead of the M: list.  Which is why I used this particular description in
> > the first place.
> >
> >> I believe there are plenty of subsystems that don't really care about bugs
> >> reported at https://bugzilla.kernel.org; they could use this to direct
> >> the users to the mailing list. The subsystem could use a *different*
> >> list for reporting bugs. A mailto: URI could even include a preferred
> >> subject prefix, or Cc's [1].
> >
> > But why really?
> >
> > Why to complicate things more than necessary?
> >
> > You seem to be claiming that the one-liner description I used is somehow
> > insufficient, but I'm sort of failing to see that.
> >
> >> The main point of "B:" is to let the maintainers communicate their
> >> preferred way of receiving bug reports to the users, especially when the
> >> mailing list(s) or https://bugzilla.kernel.org are *not* preferred.
> >
> > So here's where we differ.
> >
> > It may or may not be preferred and to me it just means "there is one more
> > place to report bugs for this in addition to the mailing list".
> >
> > Because I'm not going to refuse to respond to bug reports sent to the mailing
> > lists in the M: entries for the subsystems I maintain in any case.  And I sort of
> > can't imagine how anyone responsible enough could do that.
> 
> Over at drm/i915 we *prefer* to have the bugs reported at
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org. Not the mailing list, not at
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org. The last two happen to be the current
> default, and we prefer not to use either of them.
> 
> Why do you think you know better than us what we prefer?

Yes, that's what you prefer and I'm not discussing with that.

And you can even achieve it with the current definition of entires like this:

M: <my devel mailing list> (no bug reports please)
B: https://bugs.freedesktop.org

What I'm saying is that for the other subsystems that want to use B: that
simply need not mean "preferred", but "alternative".

> Why do you think our *preference* for bugs reported at fdo makes us
> irresponsible and/or refuse to respond to bugs on the mailing list?

Well, I didn't say what this implies.

It looks like you are taking what I said as offensive somehow, but that was
not my intention.  Sorry if it sounded like that.

> Please only speak for yourself,

Which is exactly what I did (or at least that was my intention).

> and don't try to decide for us.

No, this isn't what I'm trying to do.

I'm trying to ensure that the B: entries I added will not confuse people in the
end after the change that you are proposing, because they are not supposed
to mean "you should file bug reports there".  They are supposed to mean
"you can file bug reports there", or more precisely "if you file a bug report there,
someone is actually going to take care of it".

So basically, the introduction of B: as I did it changes the bugzilla.kernel.org
default for everybody (which you don't like too) into "no default", as far as
bug tracking systems are concerned.  Which addresses the problem
with the general bug reporters' expectation that all bugs submitted to
bugzilla.kernel.org will be taken care of (which is not the case).

Your proposed change takes it further to specify a preference which clearly was
not my intention.

I really wouldn't like all PM bugs go to the BZ, for example, because for some
of them this is just overkill.  Also if people see problems during development
and not in production, reporting them via the M: list is more natural.  And I
could give you a couple more reasons here.

Thanks,
Rafael

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Jani Nikula]

On Thu, 08 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> And you can even achieve it with the current definition of entires
> like this:
>
> M: <my devel mailing list> (no bug reports please)

I've been told the entries should be machine parseable, without free
form text such as that. Also the reason a URI was deemed the right
choice for "B:", because it doesn't preclude an email address.

> It looks like you are taking what I said as offensive somehow, but
> that was not my intention.  Sorry if it sounded like that.

I'm frustrated and annoyed because I've been trying to get "B:" merged
since the beginning of the year, and there was enough bikeshedding that
I gave up in disgust for months, and now that Andrew picked the stuff up
I thought we had some closure. But no, all that bikeshedding in vain,
something else was merged at rc7 instead.

I don't have the time for this. I hope the bug reporters who'll be told
to report the bugs somewhere else do.


BR,
Jani.

-- 
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Technology Center

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Vlastimil Babka]

On 12/08/2016 03:26 PM, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:55:59 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:35:07 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
>>>>>> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
>>>>>> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
>>>>>> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
>>>>>> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
>>>>>> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
>>>>>> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
>>>>>> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
>>>>>> type").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
>>>>>> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
>>>>>> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
>>>>>> the whole idea came from!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
>>>>>> tracker or something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com

Hello,

I've noticed that [1] meanwhile landed as 2de2bd95f4563, so now we have 
two different B: explanations in MAINTAINERS. Too bad this thread was 
not resolved. Trying to CC some people from the kernel summit session 
where bugzilla was discussed, keeping the rest of e-mail.

Vlastimil

>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified
>>>>> description below.  Namely, if mailing list information is already
>>>>> provided (the M: entry), it obviously should be suitable for reporting
>>>>> bugs too, so I'm not sure about what the "or a mailto: URI" role is?
>>>>
>>>> The absence of "B:" does not indicate that the mailing list in "M:" is
>>>> the preferred way of reporting bugs to the driver/subsystem.
>>>
>>> Well, if I had a development mailing, why wouldn't I want to get bug reports to it?
>>>
>>> How useful would that be, really?
>>>
>>> And would it actually make any sense?
>>>
>>> To me, the meaning of B: should be where to file bugs in addition to and
>>> not istead of the M: list.  Which is why I used this particular description in
>>> the first place.
>>>
>>>> I believe there are plenty of subsystems that don't really care about bugs
>>>> reported at https://bugzilla.kernel.org; they could use this to direct
>>>> the users to the mailing list. The subsystem could use a *different*
>>>> list for reporting bugs. A mailto: URI could even include a preferred
>>>> subject prefix, or Cc's [1].
>>>
>>> But why really?
>>>
>>> Why to complicate things more than necessary?
>>>
>>> You seem to be claiming that the one-liner description I used is somehow
>>> insufficient, but I'm sort of failing to see that.
>>>
>>>> The main point of "B:" is to let the maintainers communicate their
>>>> preferred way of receiving bug reports to the users, especially when the
>>>> mailing list(s) or https://bugzilla.kernel.org are *not* preferred.
>>>
>>> So here's where we differ.
>>>
>>> It may or may not be preferred and to me it just means "there is one more
>>> place to report bugs for this in addition to the mailing list".
>>>
>>> Because I'm not going to refuse to respond to bug reports sent to the mailing
>>> lists in the M: entries for the subsystems I maintain in any case.  And I sort of
>>> can't imagine how anyone responsible enough could do that.
>>
>> Over at drm/i915 we *prefer* to have the bugs reported at
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org. Not the mailing list, not at
>> https://bugzilla.kernel.org. The last two happen to be the current
>> default, and we prefer not to use either of them.
>>
>> Why do you think you know better than us what we prefer?
>
> Yes, that's what you prefer and I'm not discussing with that.
>
> And you can even achieve it with the current definition of entires like this:
>
> M: <my devel mailing list> (no bug reports please)
> B: https://bugs.freedesktop.org
>
> What I'm saying is that for the other subsystems that want to use B: that
> simply need not mean "preferred", but "alternative".
>
>> Why do you think our *preference* for bugs reported at fdo makes us
>> irresponsible and/or refuse to respond to bugs on the mailing list?
>
> Well, I didn't say what this implies.
>
> It looks like you are taking what I said as offensive somehow, but that was
> not my intention.  Sorry if it sounded like that.
>
>> Please only speak for yourself,
>
> Which is exactly what I did (or at least that was my intention).
>
>> and don't try to decide for us.
>
> No, this isn't what I'm trying to do.
>
> I'm trying to ensure that the B: entries I added will not confuse people in the
> end after the change that you are proposing, because they are not supposed
> to mean "you should file bug reports there".  They are supposed to mean
> "you can file bug reports there", or more precisely "if you file a bug report there,
> someone is actually going to take care of it".
>
> So basically, the introduction of B: as I did it changes the bugzilla.kernel.org
> default for everybody (which you don't like too) into "no default", as far as
> bug tracking systems are concerned.  Which addresses the problem
> with the general bug reporters' expectation that all bugs submitted to
> bugzilla.kernel.org will be taken care of (which is not the case).
>
> Your proposed change takes it further to specify a preference which clearly was
> not my intention.
>
> I really wouldn't like all PM bugs go to the BZ, for example, because for some
> of them this is just overkill.  Also if people see problems during development
> and not in production, reporting them via the M: list is more natural.  And I
> could give you a couple more reasons here.
>
> Thanks,
> Rafael
>

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs

[Rafael J. Wysocki]

On Thursday, December 15, 2016 08:47:26 AM Vlastimil Babka wrote:
> On 12/08/2016 03:26 PM, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:55:59 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
> >> On Thu, 08 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:35:07 AM Jani Nikula wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote:
> >>>>>> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to
> >>>>>> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS:
> >>>>>> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web
> >>>>>> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type")
> >>>>>> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> >>>>>> Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
> >>>>>> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from
> >>>>>> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry
> >>>>>> type").
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch
> >>>>>> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and
> >>>>>> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where
> >>>>>> the whole idea came from!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug
> >>>>>> tracker or something else.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I've noticed that [1] meanwhile landed as 2de2bd95f4563, so now we have 
> two different B: explanations in MAINTAINERS. Too bad this thread was 
> not resolved. Trying to CC some people from the kernel summit session 
> where bugzilla was discussed, keeping the rest of e-mail.

Oh well, feel free to send a patch to remove one description then and it can
be any of them as far as I'm concerned.

They are close enough to each other IMO.

Thanks,
Rafael