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To: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>
Cc: Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com>, Matthew Garrett <mjg@redhat.com>,
       Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>, Paul Walmsley <paul@pwsan.com>,
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       =?iso-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Cousson <b-cousson@ti.com>,
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Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 6)
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1005122118530.7624@utopia.booyaka.com>
	<201005132321.59245.rjw@sisk.pl> <20100513212556.GI3428@atomide.com>
	<201005132356.21355.rjw@sisk.pl> <878w7mgqse.fsf@deeprootsystems.com>
From: Kevin Hilman <khilman@deeprootsystems.com>
Organization: Deep Root Systems, LLC
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:40:56 -0700
In-Reply-To: <878w7mgqse.fsf@deeprootsystems.com> (Kevin Hilman's message of "Fri\, 14 May 2010 13\:41\:05 -0700")
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Kevin Hilman <khilman@deeprootsystems.com> writes:

> "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl> writes:
>
>> On Thursday 13 May 2010, Tony Lindgren wrote:
>>> * Rafael J. Wysocki <rjw@sisk.pl> [100513 14:16]:
>
> [...]
>
>>>  
>>> > It solves a practical issue that _at_ _the_ _moment_ cannot be solved
>>> > differently, while there's a growing number of out-of-tree drivers depending
>>> > on this framework.  We need those drivers in and because we don't have any
>>> > viable alternative at hand, we have no good reason to reject it.
>>> 
>>> Nothing is preventing merging the drivers can be merged without
>>> these calls.
>>
>> And yet, there _is_ a growing nuber of drivers that don't get merge because
>> of that.  That's _reality_.  Are you going to discuss with facts, or what?
>
> It may be reality, but IMO, "preventing other drivers" isn't a good
> *technical* argument for merging a feature.  It feels like these "for
> the 'good' of the community" arguments are being used to trump the
> technical arguments.  Maybe we need to keep the separate.

To continue along the "for the good of the community" path...

If it truly is the lack of a suspend blocker API that is preventing
the merge of these out of tree drivers, I second Mark's proposal[1] to
merge a noop version of the API while the technical issues continue to
be discussed.  Then we would see how many drivers get submitted and
merged.

Personally, I suspect that lack of this feature is not the real
obstacle to getting these out-of-tree drivers upstream.  Having this
API upstream will not change the product schedules and corporate
cultures that have prevented code from making its way upstream.

Kevin

[1] https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/linux-pm/2010-May/025501.html