Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Shawn Starr]

We're testing the cards to see how much traffic they can handle (on
Linux & OpenBSD) So, if we do get the specs (and if without any NDAs) I
would be happy to pass them on to the Linux community. 

I'm not a kernel developer, just a bug finder when I see things.

Shawn.

On 11 Jun 2001 15:59:38 -0700, Ken Brownfield wrote:
> We did some brief testing with this card a couple of months ago.  The 
> original drivers were pretty flaky but the recent drivers seem fine.  I 
> haven't done extremely heavy traffic or testing (no longer have the 
> switch and multiple machines) but I've been compiling and loading the 
> module for a while now with 2.4.x.
> 
> FWIW,
> --
> Ken.
> 
> On Monday, June 11, 2001, at 03:42 PM, Shawn Starr wrote:
> 
> >
> > How good is the linux kernel driver for the Intel gigabit Ethernet
> > NIC (copper) with the TL82543GC chipset? The card says it's
> > a "PRO/1000T" server adapter, and it looks like the part
> > number A19845-003.
> >
> > The sales guy who is promoting it says this is apparently a new
> > card and he claims he can get specs from engineering.
> > Not sure about NDA status.
> >
> > So my question is... is it worth calling this guy's bluff?
> >
> > Shawn.
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" 
> > in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: softirq bugs in pre2

[Linus Torvalds]

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
>
> Since I mentioned the copy-user latency fixes (even if offtopic with the
> above) this is the URL for trivial merging:

The copy-user latency fixes only make sense for out-of-line copies. If
we're going to have a conditional function call to "schedule()", we do not
want to inline the dang thing any more - we've just destroyed our register
set etc anyway.

		Linus

Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Shawn Starr]

How good is the linux kernel driver for the Intel gigabit Ethernet
NIC (copper) with the TL82543GC chipset? The card says it's
a "PRO/1000T" server adapter, and it looks like the part
number A19845-003.

The sales guy who is promoting it says this is apparently a new
card and he claims he can get specs from engineering.
Not sure about NDA status.

So my question is... is it worth calling this guy's bluff?

Shawn.

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Alan Cox]

> The sales guy who is promoting it says this is apparently a new
> card and he claims he can get specs from engineering.

Rotfl. Nobody has been able to get remotely useful docs out of intel on
their 1Gbit ethernet. 

Alan

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Riley Williams]

Hi Shawn.

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote:

 >> The sales guy who is promoting it says this is apparently a
 >> new card and he claims he can get specs from engineering.

 > Rotfl. Nobody has been able to get remotely useful docs out of
 > Intel on their 1Gbit ethernet.

Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can get you
the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely distribute them, AND
"a friend of yours who knows how to read such specs" confirms that
they are indeed FULL specs, then you'll consider buying some of the
cards, but if not, you're not interested...

Best wishes from Riley.

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Ion Badulescu]

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:20:58 +0100 (BST), Riley Williams <rhw@memalpha.cx> wrote:

> Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can get you
> the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely distribute them, AND

Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary, although it 
is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to GPL the driver sources
written using knowledge from said specs.

Ion

-- 
  It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool,
            than to open it and remove all doubt.

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Ralf Baechle]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 03:25:22AM -0700, Ion Badulescu wrote:
> Date: 	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 03:25:22 -0700
> From: Ion Badulescu <ionut@moisil.cs.columbia.edu>
> To: Riley Williams <rhw@MemAlpha.CX>
> Cc: Shawn Starr <spstarr@sh0n.net>, <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
>         Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T
> 
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:20:58 +0100 (BST), Riley Williams <rhw@memalpha.cx> wrote:
> 
> > Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can get you
> > the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely distribute them, AND
> 
> Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary, although it 
> is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to GPL the driver sources
> written using knowledge from said specs.

Which would still be a problem.  You then have a GPL'ed driver which still
cannot be sanely modified in the way the GPL would like to guarantee.

  Ralf

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[James Sutherland]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Ralf Baechle wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 03:25:22AM -0700, Ion Badulescu wrote:
> > Date: 	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 03:25:22 -0700
> > From: Ion Badulescu <ionut@moisil.cs.columbia.edu>
> > To: Riley Williams <rhw@MemAlpha.CX>
> > Cc: Shawn Starr <spstarr@sh0n.net>, <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
> >         Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
> > Subject: Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:20:58 +0100 (BST), Riley Williams <rhw@memalpha.cx> wrote:
> >
> > > Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can get you
> > > the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely distribute them, AND
> >
> > Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary, although it
> > is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to GPL the driver sources
> > written using knowledge from said specs.
>
> Which would still be a problem.  You then have a GPL'ed driver which still
> cannot be sanely modified in the way the GPL would like to guarantee.

That isn't a problem - the GPL doesn't attempt to guarantee users the
INFORMATION needed to make sane changes, just that they have the facility
to do so. Just as the kernel doesn't come with a copy of the POSIX specs,
the RFCs, etc. - some of the standards the kernel implements aren't
available publicly, but that doesn't stop the kernel being freely
modifiable!


James.

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Riley Williams]

Hi Ion.

 >> Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can
 >> get you the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely
 >> distribute them...

 > Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary,
 > although it is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to
 > GPL the driver sources written using knowledge from said specs.

That presupposes that the person they give the specs to is the person
writing the driver. I don't remember shawn offering to write a driver
or anything approaching that.

As I see it, if Shawn has permission to freely distribute the specs,
he can send a copy to Alan Cox for forwarding to the relevant driver
developers. However, if he has to sign an NDA to get them, they're
useless...

Alan: Am I right in assuming this?

Best wishes from Riley.

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Jeff Garzik]

Riley Williams wrote:
> 
> Hi Ion.
> 
>  >> Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can
>  >> get you the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely
>  >> distribute them...
> 
>  > Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary,
>  > although it is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to
>  > GPL the driver sources written using knowledge from said specs.
> 
> That presupposes that the person they give the specs to is the person
> writing the driver. I don't remember shawn offering to write a driver
> or anything approaching that.
> 
> As I see it, if Shawn has permission to freely distribute the specs,
> he can send a copy to Alan Cox for forwarding to the relevant driver
> developers. However, if he has to sign an NDA to get them, they're
> useless...
> 
> Alan: Am I right in assuming this?

If you can find specs, I have tested cards and help write a driver...

	Jeff


-- 
Jeff Garzik      | Andre the Giant has a posse.
Building 1024    |
MandrakeSoft     |

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Matthew Jacob]

Sorry for jumping in late in this thread....

With respect to Intel- I've had a number of meetings with these folks on just
this topic- mostly trying to work these issues from the *BSD side of our
house.

Basically- as far as I understand what they've said, is that they're trying
to figure out how they can:

	Formulate a different NDA than they currently have set up for
	companies. This NDA means that they can release documents to engineers
	writing software *and* allow the engineers to release a driver under
	some kind of Open Source- *possibly* with a feature set less than that
	described in the documents.

My personal estimation is that they're serious about trying to do this. As the
engineers I've talked to have put it (roughly), "The Intel IP is *not* in the
)!*$)!*$!)*$ Chip APIs!". This will probably take a Very Long Time for them to
implement though. They may not, ultimately,  be able to figure it out. The
jury's still out.

If any of you want to talk to the Intel folks who are dealing with this (at
least from the marketing side of the Lan group), contact me and I can try and
put you in touch with those people.


-matt



On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Riley Williams wrote:

> Hi Ion.
>
>  >> Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can
>  >> get you the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely
>  >> distribute them...
>
>  > Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary,
>  > although it is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to
>  > GPL the driver sources written using knowledge from said specs.
>
> That presupposes that the person they give the specs to is the person
> writing the driver. I don't remember shawn offering to write a driver
> or anything approaching that.
>
> As I see it, if Shawn has permission to freely distribute the specs,
> he can send a copy to Alan Cox for forwarding to the relevant driver
> developers. However, if he has to sign an NDA to get them, they're
> useless...
>
> Alan: Am I right in assuming this?
>
> Best wishes from Riley.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Alan Cox]

> As I see it, if Shawn has permission to freely distribute the specs,
> he can send a copy to Alan Cox for forwarding to the relevant driver
> developers. However, if he has to sign an NDA to get them, they're
> useless...
> 
> Alan: Am I right in assuming this?

It depends on the NDA. Lots of vendors NDA their docs because they give enough
info to cloen the hardware, or explain how to fab the chip, or include personal
details of employees .. and a million other reasons. Many sensible, many quite
daft.

But in my experience you have a better chance of getting a straight answer out
of a politician than intels networking folks. Maybe they have reformed

Alan

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Matthew Dharm]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1574 bytes --]

I know, jumping in at this late-stage is bad form... but if we're talking
about the Intel 82543GC Gigabit MAC, why doesn't someone just use the
FreeBSD if_wx.c driver as a starting point?

It took me a while to find, as they refer to it as the LIVENGOOD instead of
the 82543, but the PCI ProductID values seem to match...

Matt

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:29:26PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > As I see it, if Shawn has permission to freely distribute the specs,
> > he can send a copy to Alan Cox for forwarding to the relevant driver
> > developers. However, if he has to sign an NDA to get them, they're
> > useless...
> > 
> > Alan: Am I right in assuming this?
> 
> It depends on the NDA. Lots of vendors NDA their docs because they give enough
> info to cloen the hardware, or explain how to fab the chip, or include personal
> details of employees .. and a million other reasons. Many sensible, many quite
> daft.
> 
> But in my experience you have a better chance of getting a straight answer out
> of a politician than intels networking folks. Maybe they have reformed
> 
> Alan
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

-- 
Matthew Dharm                              Home: mdharm-usb@one-eyed-alien.net 
Maintainer, Linux USB Mass Storage Driver

It was a new hope.
					-- Dust Puppy
User Friendly, 12/25/1998

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Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Alan Cox]

> I know, jumping in at this late-stage is bad form... but if we're talking
> about the Intel 82543GC Gigabit MAC, why doesn't someone just use the
> FreeBSD if_wx.c driver as a starting point?

Intel have released a BSD like licensed gig-E driver for Linux. It needs a
serious cleanup but the hardware interface is very very clean so that is a
doable job. There are some patent related licensing issues but the discussion
on resolving that and getting them into the kernel does look promising

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Matthew Jacob]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Matthew Dharm wrote:

> I know, jumping in at this late-stage is bad form... but if we're talking
> about the Intel 82543GC Gigabit MAC, why doesn't someone just use the
> FreeBSD if_wx.c driver as a starting point?
>
> It took me a while to find, as they refer to it as the LIVENGOOD instead of
> the 82543, but the PCI ProductID values seem to match...
>
> Matt

Let me stir the pot a bit and report that the Intel driver folks (yes, they
*do* have them) claim to have a driver that blows the doors off of wx. I told
them that with their access to docs and to actual chip engineers that if it
*didn't* do so, they really were in sad shape.

-matt

Re: Gigabit Intel NIC? - Intel Gigabit Ethernet Pro/1000T

[Shawn Starr]

No word yet. I would be extremely surprised to get the docs WITHOUT an NDA
or so. It never hurts to try though :-)

I wouldn't write the driver no, my C skills aren't very good and lack of
kernel API knowledge would render that idea dead ;-)

Shawn.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Riley Williams wrote:

> Hi Ion.
>
>  >> Shawn, I'd suggest you tell the said sales guy that IF he can
>  >> get you the FULL specs TOGETHER WITH permission to freely
>  >> distribute them...
>
>  > Permission to freely distribute the specs isn't necessary,
>  > although it is nice indeed. All that's needed is permission to
>  > GPL the driver sources written using knowledge from said specs.
>
> That presupposes that the person they give the specs to is the person
> writing the driver. I don't remember shawn offering to write a driver
> or anything approaching that.
>
> As I see it, if Shawn has permission to freely distribute the specs,
> he can send a copy to Alan Cox for forwarding to the relevant driver
> developers. However, if he has to sign an NDA to get them, they're
> useless...
>
> Alan: Am I right in assuming this?
>
> Best wishes from Riley.
>
>
>