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From: daw@mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner)
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: /dev/random in 2.4.6
Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:24:44 GMT	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9lu91c$n5v$3@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108210957060.13373-100000@waste.org> <2348622871.998419449@[10.132.112.53]>

Alex Bligh - linux-kernel  wrote:
>If we assume SHA-1 was
>not breakable, then /dev/urandom in a ZERO ENTROPY environment would
>give the the same value on a reboot of your machine as a simultaneous
>reboot of a hacker's machine. /dev/random would block (indefinitely)
>under these conditions. So /dev/urandom and /dev/random are
>both dysfunctional in this circumstance (one spits out a predictable
>number, one blocks), but differently dysfunctional, and
>/dev/random's behaviour is better.

Yup.  Fortunately, the countermeasure is simple: Your init script
should contain something like
  dd count=16 ibs=1 if=/dev/random of=/dev/urandom
This fixes the problem.  So this is arguably a user-level issue, not
a kernel issue.

>Similarly, if entropy disappears later on, then using /dev/urandom
>eventually  provides you with information about the state of the pool,
>though as the pool is SHA-1 hashed, it's a difficult attack to exploit.

No, it's not just difficult, it is completely infeasible under
current knowledge.

>So let's use Occam's razor and assume the attacker could have an SHA-1
>exploit,

No, let's not.  If the attacker has a SHA-1 exploit, then all your
SSL and IPSEC and other implementations are insecure, and they are
probably the only reason you're using /dev/random anyway.

Instead, let's assume SHA-1 is good, since it probably is, and since
you have to assume this anyway for the rest of your system.

  reply	other threads:[~2001-08-21 18:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-08-15 15:07 /dev/random in 2.4.6 Steve Hill
2001-08-15 15:21 ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-15 15:27   ` Steve Hill
2001-08-15 15:42     ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-15 16:29       ` Tim Walberg
2001-08-15 17:13     ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-16  8:37       ` Steve Hill
2001-08-16 19:11         ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-16 19:35           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-16 20:30             ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-17  0:49           ` Robert Love
2001-08-17  1:05             ` Robert Love
2001-08-19 17:29             ` David Wagner
2001-08-17 21:18       ` Theodore Tso
2001-08-17 22:05         ` David Schwartz
2001-08-19 15:13           ` Theodore Tso
2001-08-19 15:33             ` Rob Radez
2001-08-19 17:32             ` David Wagner
2001-08-19 23:32             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20  7:40               ` Helge Hafting
2001-08-20 14:01                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20 13:37               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-20 14:12                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20 14:40                   ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-20 14:55                     ` Chris Friesen
2001-08-20 15:22                       ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20 15:25                       ` Doug McNaught
2001-08-20 15:42                         ` Chris Friesen
2001-08-21 10:03                           ` Steve Hill
2001-08-21 18:14                             ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 16:01                       ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 19:30                       ` Gérard Roudier
2001-08-20 15:07                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-21  8:33                       ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 16:13                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-21 17:44                           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 18:24                             ` David Wagner [this message]
2001-08-21 18:49                               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 19:04                             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-21 19:20                               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 21:44                                 ` Robert Love
2001-08-21 18:19                         ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 16:00                     ` David Wagner
2001-08-21  1:20                       ` Theodore Tso
2001-08-21  8:39                       ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 10:46                         ` Marco Colombo
2001-08-21 12:40                           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 17:06                           ` cfs+linux-kernel
2001-08-21 17:48                             ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 18:27                           ` David Wagner
2001-08-21 18:25                         ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 22:55                     ` D. Stimits
2001-08-21  1:06                       ` David Schwartz
2001-08-19 17:31         ` David Wagner
2001-08-19 17:27     ` David Wagner
2001-08-15 19:25 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-15 20:55   ` Robert Love
2001-08-15 21:27     ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-16  8:55   ` Steve Hill

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