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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org,
	 Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	Christopher Bazley <chris.bazley.wg14@gmail.com>,
	 shadow <~hallyn/shadow@lists.sr.ht>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	 Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	kasan-dev@googlegroups.com,  Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
	Alexander Potapenko <glider@google.com>,
	Marco Elver <elver@google.com>,  Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	 Roman Gushchin <roman.gushchin@linux.dev>,
	Harry Yoo <harry.yoo@oracle.com>,
	 Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net>,
	Rasmus Villemoes <linux@rasmusvillemoes.dk>,
	 Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [RFC v4 6/7] sprintf: Add [V]SPRINTF_END()
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 15:08:29 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wiOSRbTqEO8H=5bBem4Su3E=bZRLM3nE5rwLHSofhD0Lw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <yxa4mb4tq4uamjc5atvhfefvxyu6fl6e6peuozd5j5cemaqd2t@pfwybj4oyscs>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 at 14:21, Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> So, I prefer my implementation because it returns NULL on truncation.

As I pointed out, your implementation is WRONG.

If you want to return an error on truncation, do it right.  Not by
returning NULL, but by actually returning an error.

For example, in the kernel, we finally fixed 'strcpy()'. After about a
million different versions of 'copy a string' where every single
version was complete garbage, we ended up with 'strscpy()'. Yeah, the
name isn't lovely, but the *use* of it is:

 - it returns the length of the result for people who want it - which
is by far the most common thing people want

 - it returns an actual honest-to-goodness error code if something
overflowed, instead of the absoilutely horrible "source length" of the
string that strlcpy() does and which is fundamentally broken (because
it requires that you walk *past* the end of the source,
Christ-on-a-stick what a broken interface)

 - it can take an array as an argument (without the need for another
name - see my earlier argument about not making up new names by just
having generics)

Now, it has nasty naming (exactly the kind of 'add random character'
naming that I was arguing against), and that comes from so many
different broken versions until we hit on something that works.

strncpy is horrible garbage. strlcpy is even worse. strscpy actually
works and so far hasn't caused issues (there's a 'pad' version for the
very rare situation where you want 'strncpy-like' padding, but it
still guarantees NUL-termination, and still has a good return value).

Let's agree to *not* make horrible garbage when making up new versions
of sprintf.

             Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2025-07-10 22:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 98+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-07-05 20:33 [RFC v1 0/3] Add and use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-05 20:33 ` [RFC v1 1/3] vsprintf: Add [v]seprintf(), [v]stprintf() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-05 20:40   ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  9:47   ` Alexander Potapenko
2025-07-07 14:59     ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-05 20:33 ` [RFC v1 2/3] stacktrace, stackdepot: Add seprintf()-like variants of functions Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-05 20:33 ` [RFC v1 3/3] mm: Use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-05 21:54   ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-06 17:37 ` [RFC v2 0/5] Add and use " Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-06 17:37   ` [RFC v2 1/5] vsprintf: Add [v]seprintf(), [v]stprintf() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-06 17:37   ` [RFC v2 2/5] stacktrace, stackdepot: Add seprintf()-like variants of functions Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-06 17:37   ` [RFC v2 3/5] mm: Use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-06 17:37   ` [RFC v2 4/5] array_size.h: Add ENDOF() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-06 17:37   ` [RFC v2 5/5] mm: Fix benign off-by-one bugs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06   ` [RFC v3 0/7] Add and use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 1/7] vsprintf: Add [v]seprintf(), [v]stprintf() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 2/7] stacktrace, stackdepot: Add seprintf()-like variants of functions Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 3/7] mm: Use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  7:44       ` Marco Elver
2025-07-07 14:39         ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 14:58           ` Marco Elver
2025-07-07 18:51             ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 19:08               ` Marco Elver
2025-07-07 20:53                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 19:17       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-07 19:35         ` Al Viro
2025-07-07 20:46           ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-07 20:29         ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 20:49           ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-07 21:05             ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 21:26               ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 22:17                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-08  2:20                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-12 20:58         ` Christopher Bazley
2025-07-14  7:57           ` Christopher Bazley
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 4/7] array_size.h: Add ENDOF() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 5/7] mm: Fix benign off-by-one bugs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  7:46       ` Marco Elver
2025-07-07  7:53         ` Michal Hocko
2025-07-07 14:42           ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07 15:12             ` Michal Hocko
2025-07-07 15:29               ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 6/7] sprintf: Add [V]STPRINTF() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:06     ` [RFC v3 7/7] mm: Use [V]STPRINTF() to avoid specifying the array size Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-07  5:11     ` [RFC v3 0/7] Add and use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:47   ` [RFC v4 0/7] Add and use sprintf_end() " Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:47     ` alx-0049r2 - add seprintf() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:48     ` [RFC v4 1/7] vsprintf: Add [v]sprintf_end() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:48     ` [RFC v4 2/7] stacktrace, stackdepot: Add sprintf_end()-like variants of functions Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:48     ` [RFC v4 3/7] mm: Use sprintf_end() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:48     ` [RFC v4 4/7] array_size.h: Add ENDOF() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:48     ` [RFC v4 5/7] mm: Fix benign off-by-one bugs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10  2:48     ` [RFC v4 6/7] sprintf: Add [V]SPRINTF_END() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 15:52       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-10 18:30         ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:21           ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 22:08             ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2025-07-10  2:49     ` [RFC v4 7/7] mm: Use [V]SPRINTF_END() to avoid specifying the array size Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:30   ` [RFC v5 0/7] Add and use sprintf_{end,array}() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:30     ` [RFC v5 1/7] vsprintf: Add [v]sprintf_end() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:30     ` [RFC v5 2/7] stacktrace, stackdepot: Add sprintf_end()-like variants of functions Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:30     ` [RFC v5 3/7] mm: Use sprintf_end() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:31     ` [RFC v5 4/7] array_size.h: Add ENDOF() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:31     ` [RFC v5 5/7] mm: Fix benign off-by-one bugs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:31     ` [RFC v5 6/7] sprintf: Add [v]sprintf_array() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 21:58       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-10 23:23         ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-10 23:24           ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  0:19           ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11 17:43           ` David Laight
2025-07-11 19:17             ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11 19:21               ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  6:05         ` Martin Uecker
2025-07-11  6:19           ` Martin Uecker
2025-07-11 17:45           ` David Laight
2025-07-11 17:58             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-07-11 19:24               ` Matthew Wilcox
2025-07-15  5:19               ` Kees Cook
2025-07-15  6:24                 ` Martin Uecker
2025-07-17 23:44                   ` Kees Cook
2025-07-15  7:08                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-17 23:47                   ` Kees Cook
2025-07-18  0:56                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11 18:01             ` Martin Uecker
2025-07-10 21:31     ` [RFC v5 7/7] mm: Use [v]sprintf_array() to avoid specifying the array size Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:56   ` [RFC v6 0/8] Add and use sprintf_{end,trunc,array}() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:56     ` [RFC v6 1/8] vsprintf: Add [v]sprintf_trunc() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:56     ` [RFC v6 2/8] vsprintf: Add [v]sprintf_end() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:56     ` [RFC v6 3/8] sprintf: Add [v]sprintf_array() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:56     ` [RFC v6 4/8] stacktrace, stackdepot: Add sprintf_end()-like variants of functions Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:57     ` [RFC v6 5/8] mm: Use sprintf_end() instead of less ergonomic APIs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:57     ` [RFC v6 6/8] array_size.h: Add ENDOF() Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:57     ` [RFC v6 7/8] mm: Fix benign off-by-one bugs Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-11  1:57     ` [RFC v6 8/8] mm: Use [v]sprintf_array() to avoid specifying the array size Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-08  6:43 ` [RFC v1 0/3] Add and use seprintf() instead of less ergonomic APIs Rasmus Villemoes
2025-07-08 11:36   ` Alejandro Colomar
2025-07-08 13:51     ` Rasmus Villemoes
2025-07-08 16:14       ` Alejandro Colomar

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