From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E966C433ED for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:51:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB7C610CD for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:51:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231409AbhDRPwJ (ORCPT ); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:52:09 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:34016 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229986AbhDRPwE (ORCPT ); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:52:04 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com (mail-wm1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B0FEC061760 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 08:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id t14-20020a05600c198eb029012eeb3edfaeso6813196wmq.2 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 08:51:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=OtKw10qEvbW4vVJ7LgDYq6Lw3KkFyEL4NmBJkuZOV+o=; b=wI9ZYZdipjoG+WBfdtD11eqltuXuPkKeZePxTrK9r0jW3SdtouH8LNr/gS3aR6hZ/W vJULJ27nh78HN6MqOBeYYf1R2m7CgNWF1PirBl7FpzcmFBpFjMDs4L55JeFMHITFXVn/ ztlV8Up0gMBG7mNZcGy/cms2aMgZD/tYaCpuQJuBFGK8PYc0TlanBX8FCjWUp959Vs5c NNkRTyzNt9wsn6+DH6KQvzSyH+7NIB8KPBorzwQUpWVVALfJwi8fYl7K48ceFbLO63ut /193s5Rkr2cYSWlDg48jjKb3zjodyB+zYGNu0B9YXUWRWnNd7dvI2eQbC8NycfF8y1WV tg3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=OtKw10qEvbW4vVJ7LgDYq6Lw3KkFyEL4NmBJkuZOV+o=; b=OgdLVkmW+WcOHOgkZHhqzyccxlVAilgBL+HG4H9ZF5uCTM4wYBHGXCi5JWUS7vjZ6o sZoU+XIvsnA67eypNzOWAyCNx5X2AFJaCKgtPeddK7VzKz8D6DqhAM8OQzG0jPuYO5pK Annqs/Da5jOsyJlljME3YTyAnglZ4UExKkfkLn8UAMgpQ8ZAwM86hqoItG7gJEsjEPGD IYOZbo9EinMuVGUrtH6KDM0/Petl58nIQ8L9Uq2bnzaKWzKYDHpc8q3AeNy/QCgejPuC hUmQWl8S4HCTZZDHjIKKgrQOYClWGKjkUo9iHR19Kaq+LVfmVgvwse+QdhI2dbJJ9mKX bBUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53207ewIEnHOGva4gTIVkK3PEzgw1D3aMIcwAt0ARBTQxIpUJkwS SswyBU4bCGboV5daWKqJD8Yw X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyrkMnxGIkLrosVJLsRh5oNdjvpEKR9/be+0/gpccSgpInNrF8k8+QX7jRgxsO2uET3pdoziw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3548:: with SMTP id i8mr14715981wmq.110.1618761089071; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 08:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from google.com ([2a00:79e0:d:209:b40b:f0d6:b292:d186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v4sm20768292wrf.36.2021.04.18.08.51.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 08:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 16:51:24 +0100 From: Wedson Almeida Filho To: Willy Tarreau Cc: Peter Zijlstra , ojeda@kernel.org, Linus Torvalds , Greg Kroah-Hartman , rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-kbuild@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/13] [RFC] Rust support Message-ID: References: <20210414184604.23473-1-ojeda@kernel.org> <20210416161444.GA10484@1wt.eu> <20210417142126.GA15678@1wt.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210417142126.GA15678@1wt.eu> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 04:21:27PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote: > Well, I can't express how much I hate abstractions because I constantly > need to know what it's doing under the hood, and I spend my time reading > the output asm code because I always want to confirm my assumptions about > the compiler not cheating on me (and not hitting one of its bugs), > especially after C compilers have become so smart that they completely > replace your code with what they think is better for you, (including > nothing), I understand the feeling. One thing I can say about the abstractions we've been talking about is that they're zero-cost. So you'd still have the ability to inspect generated code and relate that to source, although it would still be subject to optimisations like C (or perhaps more optimisations as the compiler knows more about the code). > so I guess all of this is really not for someone like me. This may indeed be the case. But I'd invite you to try it out for yourself anyway before discounting it. I used to hate destructors in C++ because they were called implicitly: C was king because I had full control. Now I find myself publicly backing Rust. I feel the advantages outweigh the cost. > However while I'm pretty sure that based on our respective experiences > we'd probably disagree forever on a wide number of approaches when it > comes to deciding whether the developer or the compiler should have the > last say, I sincerely appreciate that you take the time to calmly explain > your differing views and the rationale behind, so many thanks for this! Thank you. I also appreciate your willingness to engage with us. Cheers, -Wedson