From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B560C433F5 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 02:37:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S232343AbiJAChn (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:37:43 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:43614 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S232254AbiJAChk (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:37:40 -0400 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CB851ABFE0; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 19:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from letrec.thunk.org ([50.224.35.3]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 2912bLTR006816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:37:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mit.edu; s=outgoing; t=1664591844; bh=z0peX8Psl4TmqPUIRkl+yYsD2eDEDDU+Gc3/CwEQoCg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=nkAMdpLgdd/kjwKRNPZZ4rDWnZOT3Xg/QneaPaV2prt3yud4by6XfluDS8sDs2Wil 2dTfSibVzPJHf52XcowMcne7o/mkfhqKHFpc/QUHsLRzIb5OnsMznCKLbBYnwbBlwp bJNtFVzteXcYo/jQaF9Ja3YVCE+zxkJgqt0Z8T/PzvoLUIQRqcrEux0BoP+ZMN3jre C+VIrbJLXeST/nR7oD2ZDLY65BPN5MoCJTC4ATVJbDPICq6UcEoztxhsceYEqlostp HiLxs+XEZe8qCkCbJp5b9uEoSeEfhOckg0OhgSZ5abvoDh4gF8D7OdfEajRoaYnn20 FD2eIdUM7CPvw== Received: by letrec.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 7BAE38C2AB5; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:37:21 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: "Bryan O'Donoghue" Cc: Akira Yokosawa , corbet@lwn.net, konstantin@linuxfoundation.org, krzysztof.kozlowski@linaro.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux@leemhuis.info Subject: Re: [PATCH v3] Documentation/process: Add text to indicate supporters should be mailed Message-ID: References: <20220930064629.329514-2-bryan.odonoghue@linaro.org> <21f8d79a-0ad4-b28b-15d8-f4be0cfd9730@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 05:18:52PM +0100, Bryan O'Donoghue wrote: > > So the root cause of your confusion was you couldn't figure out > > the fact that "supporter" in the output of get_maintainver.pl means > > "maintainer of a supported subsystem", wasn't it? > > > > I guess all you need would be just a short notice along the lines of: > > > > "supporter" in the output from get_maintainer.pl means "maintainer > > of a supported subsystem". > > > > No? > > We discussed that a bit earlier. > > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220928003006.230103-1-bryan.odonoghue@linaro.org/T/#u > https://lkml.org/lkml/2022/9/28/1394 > https://lkml.org/lkml/2022/9/28/1511 > https://lkml.org/lkml/2022/9/29/188 > > I think its fair to say the consensus so far is to leave the > get_maintainer.pl output as is. FWIW, I actually think the output of get_maintainer.pl is pretty broken in this regard. (Then again, I've never thought all that highly of get_maintainer.pl, *especially* because of the bogus git fallback, but that's another story.) Consider: % ./scripts/get_maintainer.pl --file drivers/acpi/power.c "Rafael J. Wysocki" (supporter:ACPI) Len Brown (reviewer:ACPI) linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org (open list:ACPI) linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org (open list) I'm sorry, but that's just *wrong*. Rafael is the *maintainer* of the ACPI subsystem, and the term "supporter" is rarely if ever used anywhere in our docs. As I said earlier, trying to treat S: field to say anything about the entitles listed under the M: field of the Maintainers file is a category error. Consider: ACPI subsystem is is "supported". From a user's perspective, what are they supposed to take from that? That the ACPI subsystem is somehow better supported than say, the MM subsystem (which is only "maintained"), or all of Linux networking, which is also "maintained". And so Rafel is a "supporter", but David Miller and Andrew Morton are "maintainers", respectively. ?!? I think the original rationale behind the S: field is to help people understand, in particular for device drivers, how solid a particular device driver might be. Was it officially supported by the hardware manufacturer? Was it supported by a some random student who hacked something together? Was the still being actively maintained? But even then, just because a driver is "officially" supported by the hardware manufacturer doesn't necessarily mean that it is any more reliable, or high quality, than something which is being supported by someone who supposedly isn't getting paid to support it. (And there are plenty of subsystems listed as "maintained" where the people listed under M: are most certainly getting paid to work on it.) - Ted