From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ej1-f45.google.com (mail-ej1-f45.google.com [209.85.218.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51EF21C304A; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:20 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.218.45 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1728931162; cv=none; b=mpfFfOu79WlVQbVfJXRTeQz6oNQpFgU1z7OhaF2dAddUkvrK76RM0tI73+2rY+8RdjWL0535IsruaMdVi1riOMgLhNXJoquX1f30ZDj3dbsExxW0tR/PDU42tHRmYsbm+vqjZVg+pNp8VR3MA6MLApjN43U0QGErlf9PfNmFjew= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1728931162; c=relaxed/simple; bh=bNpe9cGfuFuN6XB+KYQ51+s+Hd11yBzJgAeFEbeoD6A=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=CioI9y/EorTANKcQtiZbN2fRvDpya8DpyUun9EhuUK8u8XoKOJx175QUw4X8DFD98QyMicHlPsM7Kons2xmfRJ1khz5uUUXd/p7HMd66hOv5A5TpQ0M75qrP3295o12Kr+8SVvxkRnQcs/G7i3Jcll5GOOHjZpKOKgioApRr6Sk= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=OXY2EjFl; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.218.45 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="OXY2EjFl" Received: by mail-ej1-f45.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9a01810fffso248884866b.3; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:39:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1728931158; x=1729535958; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0r76MqNhjQHMwaWhdIiFLyHSJMjIu1KOA2CjoqqtSM4=; b=OXY2EjFlzksb4rZ1/h4TyMe84zB3/BOs+N1XOniemroGr32udFgIsFAdKlpQlqtW56 cq5gMs6edRwjKnCDJR7hQd1Mraz/rGFeDF+GLBL+M3wzbRHxFgSaLmdu3gOthkTTAgYH 5NR3FCIBrhkVNLFeG2YUjUTJBDOMCJQpUdXvd+mv3Ktk2I2Jbv+k11LG0ZmJAhsZnLxn IUcm0zspxsxunSOyXT6Nwy+K+q748e7mxSZoFBMmDj02jwNPJVLuFHZHSMZD944v1uiY 2BsYI50rHL57m4H4FgkmGfw3AoG7HTPk9zEqau7mxphIwN+vkPu4IeLLw8nXbM+ISfBO nfAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1728931158; x=1729535958; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0r76MqNhjQHMwaWhdIiFLyHSJMjIu1KOA2CjoqqtSM4=; b=uLvnamltNihLkMzCcEoMM5n0/8yK5p8nwzskfxsOafAcd09ol7DoOlN8etLTBdgi70 cQXqzFeQ78bN0KP4u1fVJ7TMDSSC5Fq3EwPC+JiineHraTKpBHZ1bMWOoKnTvv1rKzg5 IBWv4e3kha8Q1aX49GZDL/A7QZSHs41B8ZWdf0T96LN5KvzWXYB0/oLD34DXaLtb44b5 tyltUaODnJtyq1hsrQHmMVCI1mdFUUe4wQAOWXrFPTkZWXFctavde1SI2l0ROnuNzrrz bmn8yQzc20L5rGCGD2USaAF0CbzdwY7aUP3NslFB6m3sDvB+KRMNaTQ9Hs+/8wr7sAsg sogg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVqpinzsiDGvJHRD5PvTg4TaTOiBlJ8DislyLfuxcO6KehYhoD/2OBm54CwbO4a9RYdUPcXD3GSvo7HsVqYYQ==@vger.kernel.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx1LiDQBZe3C+UiBOd5nPzbgNBpNML5ESF2o8MACvysz5tzi4TU FA2oHd1XlVaEx+cO5GY5fFfV5PxgyqBx9LIF5fPdpQXX8JdPWeNS X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFhhSROBO9GfBivL9KwataGn4/0YIUxuXdkFCm1rEekyN3xQH7THl7pb75iTikmddIrLHixIA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:da83:b0:a7a:9144:e23a with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a99e3e437f4mr874605066b.43.1728931158353; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.105] (p54a0712c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [84.160.113.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-a9a16989a01sm126620866b.116.2024.10.14.11.39.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 20:39:16 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RFC] ipw2100 ipw2200 ps3_gelic rtl8712 --- Are we ready for wext cleanup? To: Kalle Valo Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "David S . Miller" , Alexandre Belloni , Claudiu Beznea , Geert Uytterhoeven , Geoff Levand , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Jakub Kicinski , Jeff Johnson , Johannes Berg , Larry Finger , Nicolas Ferre , Pavel Machek , Stanislaw Gruszka , Gregory Greenman , linuxppc-dev , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-staging@lists.linux.dev, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann , Stefan Lippers-Hollmann References: <87iktv58tn.fsf@kernel.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Philipp Hortmann In-Reply-To: <87iktv58tn.fsf@kernel.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 14.10.24 11:32, Kalle Valo wrote: > Philipp Hortmann writes: > >> origin of this question was the following patch series from Arnd Bergmann >> [PATCH 00/10] Remove obsolete and orphaned wifi drivers >> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/20231023131953.2876682-1-arnd@kernel.org/ >> >> Here the remaining files that use iw_handler_def: >> drivers/net/ethernet/toshiba/ps3_gelic_wireless.c:static const struct >> iw_handler_def gelic_wl_wext_handler_def = { >> drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2100.c:static const struct >> iw_handler_def ipw2100_wx_handler_def; >> drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2100.c:static const struct >> iw_handler_def ipw2100_wx_handler_def = { >> drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2200.c:static const struct >> iw_handler_def ipw_wx_handler_def = { >> drivers/staging/rtl8712/os_intfs.c: pnetdev->wireless_handlers = >> (struct iw_handler_def *) >> drivers/staging/rtl8712/rtl871x_ioctl.h:extern struct iw_handler_def >> r871x_handlers_def; >> drivers/staging/rtl8712/rtl871x_ioctl_linux.c:struct iw_handler_def >> r871x_handlers_def = { >> >> >> In this Email Greg writes over rtl8192e: >> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/2024100810-payback-suds-8c15@gregkh/ >> "... >> No staging driver should ever get in the way of api changes elsewhere in >> the kernel, that's one of the rules of this part of the tree. So from >> my opinion, it's fine to delete it now. It can always come back in a >> new way later on. >> ..." >> >> So it should not be an issue to remove rtl8712. >> >> Stefan Lippers-Hollmann was one year ago still using the ipw2200. >> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/20231024014302.0a0b79b0@mir/ >> >> Here my opinion why I think we should reconsider this: >> >> I really like to use old hardware. One of my computers is from trash >> and the other one is bought for 50€ three years ago. But non of my >> hardware is from before 2012. Do we as a community really need to >> support hardware from 2003 in kernel 6.13 for WLAN that evolved so >> rapidly? I do not think so. >> >> People around me are complaining that the 2,4GHz WLAN is difficult to >> use because so many devices are using it. Such slow devices consume a >> lot of time to send and receive the data and block therefore other >> devices. >> >> The longterm kernels will still support this hardware for years. >> >> Please explain to our very high value resources (Maintainers, >> Developers with wext and mac80211 expierience) that you cannot find >> any other solution that is within technical possibility and budget >> (USB WLAN Stick or exchange of WLAN module) and that they need to >> invest their time for maintenance. >> Here the example of invested time from Johannes Berg: >> https://lore.kernel.org/all/20241007213525.8b2d52b60531.I6a27aaf30bded9a0977f07f47fba2bd31a3b3330@changeid/ >> >> I cannot ask the Linux kernel community to support my test hardware >> just because I bought it some time ago. Rather, I have to show that I >> use it for private or business purposes on a regular basis and that I >> cannot easily change. >> >> Using this hardware is security wise not state of the art as WPA3 is >> not supported. We put so much effort into security. Why not here? > > I didn't quite get what you are saying here, are you proposing that we > should remove ancient drivers faster? > Hi Kalle, I propose to delete the last three drivers that are using wireless extension: ps3_gelic_wireless ipw2x00 rtl8712 Thanks for your response. Bye Philipp