UNDI/PXE for 2.4.x available?

UNDI/PXE for 2.4.x available?

[Tobias Wollgam]

Hello,

is there a UNDI (Universal Network Driver Interface, a part of the 
PXE-specification) for the 2.4x kernel available?

We found one from Intel in its linux-pxe-sdk for the 2.2.x kernel. This 
one works, but not with all pxe-networkcards.

Potentially we will port it from 2.2 to 2.4 or rewrite it for 2.4 with 
a little assistance.

TIA for all information,

	Tobias

-- 
Tobias Wollgam * Softwaredevelopment * Business Unit Information 
MATERNA GmbH Information & Communications
Vosskuhle 37 * 44141 Dortmund  
http://www.materna.de

Re: UNDI/PXE for 2.4.x available?

[H. Peter Anvin]

Followup to:  <20020204154633.E2BC267F3@penelope.materna.de>
By author:    Tobias Wollgam <tobias.wollgam@materna.de>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
>
> Hello,
> 
> is there a UNDI (Universal Network Driver Interface, a part of the 
> PXE-specification) for the 2.4x kernel available?
> 
> We found one from Intel in its linux-pxe-sdk for the 2.2.x kernel. This 
> one works, but not with all pxe-networkcards.
> 

I think you'll have that problem with any UNDI driver; in either case
I suspect that (a) performance will stink no matter what and (b) it
won't work properly with SMP unless you apply really heavy locking.

The PXE people at Intel really seems enamored with the idea of using
the UNDI stack all the way into the operating system; I don't think
any sane operating system does that (DOS, of course, does, but DOS
isn't a sane operating system.)  If I'm not completely mistaken UNDI
was derived from NDIS 2 or so -- widely considered the crappiest of
all the various specifications for DOS drivers.

> Potentially we will port it from 2.2 to 2.4 or rewrite it for 2.4 with 
> a little assistance.

	-hpa

-- 
<hpa@transmeta.com> at work, <hpa@zytor.com> in private!
"Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot."
http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt	<amsp@zytor.com>

Re: UNDI/PXE for 2.4.x available?

[Tobias Wollgam]

We want to install PCs over ethernet with PXE. For the first boot from 
net we have nothing than the network, we don't know the hardware, so an 
UNDI in the kernel would be perfect. IMHO

> I think you'll have that problem with any UNDI driver; in either case
> I suspect that (a) performance will stink no matter what 

That's ok for the things we will do.

> and (b) it won't work properly with SMP unless you apply really
> heavy locking.

Does it matter in our case?
 
> The PXE people at Intel really seems enamored with the idea of using
> the UNDI stack all the way into the operating system; 

We need it not to run an operating system, we need it for the 
installation of an operating system.


On the other hand, UNDI will deliver a network driver for all PXE-cards 
that come up before there is any direct hardware support. (Ok, then b 
matters)

-- 
Tobias Wollgam * Softwaredevelopment * Business Unit Information 
MATERNA GmbH Information & Communications
Vosskuhle 37 * 44141 Dortmund  
http://www.materna.de

Re: UNDI/PXE for 2.4.x available?

[H. Peter Anvin]

Followup to:  <20020204170844.2AB5667F1@penelope.materna.de>
By author:    Tobias Wollgam <tobias.wollgam@materna.de>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
>
> We want to install PCs over ethernet with PXE. For the first boot from 
> net we have nothing than the network, we don't know the hardware, so an 
> UNDI in the kernel would be perfect. IMHO
> 
> > I think you'll have that problem with any UNDI driver; in either case
> > I suspect that (a) performance will stink no matter what 
> 
> That's ok for the things we will do.
> 
> > and (b) it won't work properly with SMP unless you apply really
> > heavy locking.
> 
> Does it matter in our case?
>  

Probably not.

> 
> > The PXE people at Intel really seems enamored with the idea of using
> > the UNDI stack all the way into the operating system; 
> 
> We need it not to run an operating system, we need it for the 
> installation of an operating system.
> 
> On the other hand, UNDI will deliver a network driver for all PXE-cards 
> that come up before there is any direct hardware support. (Ok, then b 
> matters)
> 

In theory.  In practice, from having dealt with enough PXE stacks, I
would say that it is more likely you're going to have problems getting
the UNDI drivers to work in a Linux environment than you will find
that a fully equipped kernel lacks the drivers you need, especially
since you can update the kernel on the server as needed.  There has
been a shakeout in the NIC world, and aren't anywhere near as many in
use now as there was a few years ago -- and anything before then isn't
going to have PXE.

	-hpa
-- 
<hpa@transmeta.com> at work, <hpa@zytor.com> in private!
"Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot."
http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt	<amsp@zytor.com>