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From: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
To: Vishal Annapurve <vannapurve@google.com>
Cc: Ackerley Tng <ackerleytng@google.com>,
	David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>,
	 Patrick Roy <patrick.roy@linux.dev>,
	Fuad Tabba <tabba@google.com>,
	 Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@linux.ibm.com>,
	 Janosch Frank <frankja@linux.ibm.com>,
	Claudio Imbrenda <imbrenda@linux.ibm.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org,  linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Nikita Kalyazin <kalyazin@amazon.co.uk>,
	shivankg@amd.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/6] KVM: guest_memfd: Add DEFAULT_SHARED flag, reject user page faults if not set
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2025 09:15:32 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aN1TgRpde5hq_FPn@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGtprH_JgWfr2wPGpJg_mY5Sxf6E0dp5r-_4aVLi96To2pugXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 01, 2025, Vishal Annapurve wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2025 at 5:15 PM Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh!  This got me looking at kvm_arch_supports_gmem_mmap() and thus
> > KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_MMAP.  Two things:
> >
> >  1. We should change KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_MMAP into KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_FLAGS so
> >     that we don't need to add a capability every time a new flag comes along,
> >     and so that userspace can gather all flags in a single ioctl.  If gmem ever
> >     supports more than 32 flags, we'll need KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_FLAGS2, but
> >     that's a non-issue relatively speaking.
> >
> 
> Guest_memfd capabilities don't necessarily translate into flags, so ideally:
> 1) There should be two caps, KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_FLAGS and
> KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_CAPS.

I'm not saying we can't have another GUEST_MEMFD capability or three, all I'm
saying is that for enumerating what flags can be passed to KVM_CREATE_GUEST_MEMFD,
KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_FLAGS is a better fit than a one-off KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_MMAP.

> 2) IMO they should both support namespace of 64 values at least from the get go.

It's a limitation of KVM_CHECK_EXTENSION, and all of KVM's plumbing for ioctls.
Because KVM still supports 32-bit architectures, direct returns from ioctls are
forced to fit in 32-bit values to avoid unintentionally creating different ABI
for 32-bit vs. 64-bit kernels.

We could add KVM_CHECK_EXTENSION2 or KVM_CHECK_EXTENSION64 or something, but I
honestly don't see the point.  The odds of guest_memfd supporting >32 flags is
small, and the odds of that happening in the next ~5 years is basically zero.
All so that userspace can make one syscall instead of two for a path that isn't
remotely performance critical.

So while I agree that being able to enumerate 64 flags from the get-go would be
nice to have, it's simply not worth the effort (unless someone has a clever idea).

> 3) The reservation scheme for upstream should ideally be LSB's first
> for the new caps/flags.

We're getting way ahead of ourselves.  Nothing needs KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_CAPS at
this time, so there's nothing to discuss.

> guest_memfd will achieve multiple features in future, both upstream
> and in out-of-tree versions to deploy features before they make their

When it comes to upstream uAPI and uABI, out-of-tree kernel code is irrelevant.

> way upstream. Generally the scheme followed by out-of-tree versions is
> to define a custom UAPI that won't conflict with upstream UAPIs in
> near future. Having a namespace of 32 values gives little space to
> avoid the conflict, e.g. features like hugetlb support will have to
> eat up at least 5 bits from the flags [1].

Why on earth would out-of-tree code use KVM_CAP_GUEST_MEMFD_FLAGS?   Providing
infrastructure to support an infinite (quite literally) number of out-of-tree
capabilities and sub-ioctls, with practically zero chance of conflict, is not
difficult.  See internal b/378111418.

But as above, this is not upstream's problem to solve.

> [1] https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v6.17/source/include/uapi/asm-generic/hugetlb_encode.h#L20

  reply	other threads:[~2025-10-01 16:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-09-26 16:31 [PATCH 0/6] KVM: Avoid a lurking guest_memfd ABI mess Sean Christopherson
2025-09-26 16:31 ` [PATCH 1/6] KVM: guest_memfd: Add DEFAULT_SHARED flag, reject user page faults if not set Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29  8:38   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29  8:57     ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-29  9:01       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29  9:04   ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-29  9:43     ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-29 10:15       ` Patrick Roy
2025-09-29 10:22         ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29 10:51           ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-29 16:55             ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-30  0:15               ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-30  8:36                 ` Ackerley Tng
2025-10-01 14:22                 ` Vishal Annapurve
2025-10-01 16:15                   ` Sean Christopherson [this message]
2025-10-01 16:31                     ` Vishal Annapurve
2025-10-01 17:16                       ` Sean Christopherson
2025-10-01 22:13                         ` Vishal Annapurve
2025-10-02  0:04                           ` Sean Christopherson
2025-10-02 15:41                             ` Vishal Annapurve
2025-10-03  0:12                               ` Sean Christopherson
2025-10-03  4:10                                 ` Vishal Annapurve
2025-10-03 16:13                                   ` Sean Christopherson
2025-10-03 20:30                                     ` Vishal Annapurve
2025-09-29 16:54       ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-26 16:31 ` [PATCH 2/6] KVM: selftests: Stash the host page size in a global in the guest_memfd test Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29  9:12   ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-29  9:17   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29 10:56   ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-29 16:58     ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-30  6:52       ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-26 16:31 ` [PATCH 3/6] KVM: selftests: Create a new guest_memfd for each testcase Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29  9:18   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29  9:24   ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-29 11:02   ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-26 16:31 ` [PATCH 4/6] KVM: selftests: Add test coverage for guest_memfd without GUEST_MEMFD_FLAG_MMAP Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29  9:21   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29  9:24   ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-26 16:31 ` [PATCH 5/6] KVM: selftests: Add wrappers for mmap() and munmap() to assert success Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29  9:24   ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-29  9:28   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29 11:08   ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-29 17:32     ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-30  7:09       ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-30 14:24         ` Sean Christopherson
2025-10-01 10:18           ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-26 16:31 ` [PATCH 6/6] KVM: selftests: Verify that faulting in private guest_memfd memory fails Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29  9:24   ` Fuad Tabba
2025-09-29  9:28   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-29 14:38   ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-29 18:10     ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-29 18:35       ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-30  7:53       ` Ackerley Tng
2025-09-30 14:58         ` Sean Christopherson
2025-10-01 10:26           ` Ackerley Tng

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