Re: [PATCH] hwrng: tpm: Do not enable by default

Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-11-09T04:43:28Z

On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 06:46:39AM +0100, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> On 27.10.25 20:51, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 02:46:15PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> >> From: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
> >>
> >> As seen with optee_ftpm, which uses ms-tpm-20-ref [1], a TPM may write
> >> the current time epoch to its NV storage every 4 seconds if there are
> >> commands sent to it. The 60 seconds periodic update of the entropy pool
> >> that the hwrng kthread does triggers this, causing about 4 writes per
> >> requests. Makes 2 millions per year for a 24/7 device, and that is a lot
> >> for its backing NV storage.
> >>
> >> It is therefore better to make the user intentionally enable this,
> >> providing a chance to read the warning.
> >>
> >> [1] https://github.com/Microsoft/ms-tpm-20-ref
> >>
> >> Signed-off-by: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
> >
> > Looking at DRBG_* from [1] I don't see anything you describe. If OPTEE
> > writes NVRAM, then the implementation is broken.
>
> It's not OP-TEE, but it might be indeed an artifact of the reference
> implementation that the fTPM is using because it is also targeting
> simulation:
>
> https://github.com/microsoft/ms-tpm-20-ref/blob/ee21db0a941decd3cac67925ea3310873af60ab3/TPMCmd/tpm/src/main/ExecCommand.c#L99
> (Page 942 in [1])
>
> -> ... ->
>
> https://github.com/microsoft/ms-tpm-20-ref/blob/main/TPMCmd/tpm/src/subsystem/Time.c#L68
> (Page 1075 in [1])
>
> >
> > Also AFAIK, it is pre-seeded per power cycle. There's nothing that even
> > distantly relates on using NVRAM.
> >
> > [1] https://trustedcomputinggroup.org/wp-content/uploads/TPM-2.0-1.83-Part-4-Supporting-Routines-Code.pdf
> >
> > BR, Jarkko
>
> Given how detailed [1] is, we likely need to address that directly there
> to avoid spreading this issue into fTPMs. Fact is, that there firmware
> implementations out there which exactly do what [1] suggests: writing to
> NV every 4 seconds on every command.

We don't reference code as a certified hardware product, sorry.

>
> Jan
>
> --
> Siemens AG, Foundational Technologies
> Linux Expert Center

BR, Jarkko