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From: Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@inria.fr>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Gabriele Paoloni <gpaoloni@redhat.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Kate Stewart <kstewart@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Chuck Wolber <chuckwolber@gmail.com>,
	Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Lorenzo Stoakes <lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com>,
	Shuah Khan <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Chris Mason <clm@meta.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Follow-up on Linux-kernel code accessibility
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 12:59:42 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aUWSjl0MR4KZq-iy@laps> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20251219170945.GA32430@macsyma.lan>

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 12:09:45PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
>On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 07:51:47AM +0100, Julia Lawall wrote:
>> automatically in many cases, or regenerated automatically from some hints.
>> But the low-level ones may be needed to make the bridge between the code
>> and the high-level specification.
>
>Sasha's API specification framework patches might be something that's
>worth considering in this context.  The thing that we need be careful
>though, is that we might need to have a way of tagging kernel
>functions in terms of the priority for the first set of high-level
>interfaces for a newcomer to the kernel should look at first, and
>those that might be less important, so that the newcomer won't get
>overwhelmed with a vast number of low-level definitions.

I just sent a refreshed version earlier today
(https://lore.kernel.org/all/20251218204239.4159453-1-sashal@kernel.org/),
which also links to a branch that has over 100 LLM-generated syscall specs.

The nice thing about it is that we don't need to trust the LLM to do the right
thing: the spec is machine readable and we can generate testing based off of
it. Running something like LTP using those specs is pretty good at highlighting
issues - whether in the spec or the actual implementation.

I'd we weary to see complex specs in kernel-internal functions. Those often get
refactored and improved. Having complex speccing on them will make that work
much more difficult and complex.

-- 
Thanks,
Sasha

  reply	other threads:[~2025-12-19 17:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-12-18 19:49 Follow-up on Linux-kernel code accessibility Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-18 22:09 ` David Laight
2025-12-19  0:20   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-19  6:51 ` Julia Lawall
2025-12-19 17:09   ` Theodore Tso
2025-12-19 17:59     ` Sasha Levin [this message]
2025-12-19 18:28       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-20  0:36         ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-22 15:42           ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-23 23:46             ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-24 14:11               ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-25 15:03                 ` Theodore Tso
2025-12-25 18:22                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-26 16:48                   ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-26 18:44                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-26 19:22                     ` Theodore Tso
2025-12-26 20:35                       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-27  1:04                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-27  6:16                         ` Julia Lawall
2025-12-27 23:28                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-27 23:32                             ` Julia Lawall
2025-12-28  1:26                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-28  1:48                                 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2025-12-28  5:16                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-28  9:36                                     ` Julia Lawall
2025-12-29 15:40                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-29 16:16                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-29 17:02                                           ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2025-12-29 17:37                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-29 18:10                                               ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2025-12-29 18:59                                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-29 20:35                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-29 22:05                                                     ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2026-01-09  1:35                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-01-09  1:34                                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-01-09 14:58                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09 18:31                                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-01-11  3:30                                                         ` Theodore Tso
2026-01-11 17:11                                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-12  5:06                                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-01-12  7:05                                                               ` Julia Lawall
2026-01-12 16:57                                                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-29 23:50                                                   ` Theodore Tso
2025-12-30  0:19                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-30  0:34                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09  2:23                                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-28 12:46                                     ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2025-12-29  0:03                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-25 18:18                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-26 16:51                   ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-26 18:36                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-12-19 21:05     ` Chris Mason
2025-12-20  4:00       ` Theodore Tso
2026-01-06 18:08       ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-13 13:03         ` Chris Mason
2025-12-20  0:31   ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-01-06 18:05 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09  1:40   ` Paul E. McKenney

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