From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0188350A26 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2025 17:59:44 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1766167184; cv=none; b=rPXj4QXe42NLcYNqFd9byTeV59NWVxYNw7u67fDe0q5mzPFkN8jVKd5g+olG7elTh1stszBJbFSEdUWGaBaXq6Gv6OYJuEF8lvDSQh8q1TsH06TYIB1pSq9hDseuwjR+KdVy7MQQTSPj1mocnosofN1NROdJdwiOFTEud24qq3Q= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1766167184; c=relaxed/simple; bh=6t7vblaSOvYMEGZIU+bs4qtsN2Hb5b6iis+HR/bnUIg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=MO5eYYZrpoA+inpH7Y+W7wRI/n6xFEiLHnDa6Ntcaxm+9tfNmmI3W9jYDIsxOD6N8KcqCnUBkXwWv/3z4fJOOpgojnw8ofun4dMk5IjlZSCk4iuujPU1UeA9mSwzFBWvH6D23CCQ2PoTqVJGJmeHZZvfB8R2F8YuLMqlFkBWJRw= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=OSBfK9GM; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="OSBfK9GM" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 11B55C4CEF1; Fri, 19 Dec 2025 17:59:43 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1766167184; bh=6t7vblaSOvYMEGZIU+bs4qtsN2Hb5b6iis+HR/bnUIg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=OSBfK9GMiv/kKBS0z5FGG8DwUhX1joV7Qg6s4f7UKue75aAuzCSRvqyXhvE645yfO w/vDmZv9RFO0xYaw4ho/crlg5lJyJRZasd6tYnKHUMtrMYhbrQ5SINPbiqynD+5VuU hMzRXVnR2ziWPjFUzxKU8+KcpWtlYtgSRmOR55i9p5lEsM81yGmHLA8lHMnwg3Kx1s 2fwBklhOCmuC654KcNaQrCqKT083C4z6PAYa60c6b+N+E0/jdaDSKKa30b/smZIBn0 uJBhuAAoqQFc+sR8LiABkQ7RXgTJXjs1FlBHBoC+nKKgYhAFkk6LOgYimd98J90HG6 zAC6SwFjfMAIw== Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 12:59:42 -0500 From: Sasha Levin To: Theodore Tso Cc: Julia Lawall , "Paul E. McKenney" , Gabriele Paoloni , Steven Rostedt , Kate Stewart , Chuck Wolber , Dmitry Vyukov , Mark Rutland , Thomas Gleixner , Lorenzo Stoakes , Shuah Khan , Chris Mason , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Follow-up on Linux-kernel code accessibility Message-ID: References: <90d56d30-232d-4930-ad9f-5aebade7cdf2@paulmck-laptop> <636d1798-3b37-293a-51b2-55d2ecc6d2d@inria.fr> <20251219170945.GA32430@macsyma.lan> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20251219170945.GA32430@macsyma.lan> On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 12:09:45PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote: >On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 07:51:47AM +0100, Julia Lawall wrote: >> automatically in many cases, or regenerated automatically from some hints. >> But the low-level ones may be needed to make the bridge between the code >> and the high-level specification. > >Sasha's API specification framework patches might be something that's >worth considering in this context. The thing that we need be careful >though, is that we might need to have a way of tagging kernel >functions in terms of the priority for the first set of high-level >interfaces for a newcomer to the kernel should look at first, and >those that might be less important, so that the newcomer won't get >overwhelmed with a vast number of low-level definitions. I just sent a refreshed version earlier today (https://lore.kernel.org/all/20251218204239.4159453-1-sashal@kernel.org/), which also links to a branch that has over 100 LLM-generated syscall specs. The nice thing about it is that we don't need to trust the LLM to do the right thing: the spec is machine readable and we can generate testing based off of it. Running something like LTP using those specs is pretty good at highlighting issues - whether in the spec or the actual implementation. I'd we weary to see complex specs in kernel-internal functions. Those often get refactored and improved. Having complex speccing on them will make that work much more difficult and complex. -- Thanks, Sasha