From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ej1-f74.google.com (mail-ej1-f74.google.com [209.85.218.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2ABF361672 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 07:47:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.218.74 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1773128865; cv=none; b=FzJgncXFNSyaEjqWfZWa44BMzyPWi4WQ0EEDFyXGdBNNVxqQdXpbGOHTseFTM4GUlD8rr/mcnQ3CNDx+N7vaFYrfMHTDddsSI3sTI+NnGeaozlMU6xJy4zC3Bynh1D5gVmAlEyOGTxWDsiBdnHPDuZcljBPWP9GltcO629jsqgg= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1773128865; c=relaxed/simple; bh=CEMltqQW9u10Dc2iBNuTXi2X2wgdQ6LtEATQpEiFmIw=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=Odae1kFJ5H6akC1zeyOkWjPe8L58ru2lkv5Ja60YWJTgScS5DrLtcOHNc5+GoASKTSumP5doQDY964yrX8DiMgaJt8qUx1WyzjZgOVO6z1asrrh9tWEiWXnVoBtwcYLmYuXyaG17D6AWsSHbr7/FOkluTv05M9lDr27OeeXPmvo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=flex--aliceryhl.bounces.google.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b=t9qU+g0F; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.218.74 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=flex--aliceryhl.bounces.google.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b="t9qU+g0F" Received: by mail-ej1-f74.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b96d8d60303so198702566b.1 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 00:47:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1773128861; x=1773733661; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xXA6X3KJ8wqz98mCcEpEVMkHZRCBuaUnyvX8XE1PQJs=; b=t9qU+g0Fg35pqzgVF0KwcUYxr5CrkQ2lw8+6R71nPpEhzSqvJLx2qzMIsHCSAP9biG G1swGxvwSmr1XKQ1Y9XCk3yC8w79Hdl4AF19fXQgZRbeOJNMfvoalEopeJo9Nh2GU4ZL OsgA94v9GY5pKXkAgjeGUp63996z8XRbxqXlLU4vqaWGwvckO+cDtkul+gBS78A/YuGj oOI9EJSofRvcPtxFQIpFmo7VfvEtINJDGy8Ftf3fUOGU68d/3l1DrMaGWQPTdehcWNfX 9Vky5JNr8ybVxh7A2pFGfZ3x/pZzVDPibbZvA/dn9QqPC34Ut9rwcDT5BT4QLgb5YKVk pq9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1773128861; x=1773733661; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xXA6X3KJ8wqz98mCcEpEVMkHZRCBuaUnyvX8XE1PQJs=; b=FFNspr4MwvbzbAQw/lwNuhG293AQ0/zkk5NeC6H/TOxXQuUEf4bdCEtkpis2kg0viG 7z0YHjlUZhlxqQ+SAqCxfAQ20khFnwrwlt1iiF7Ei3gVPuzq295rm15Hpn12+uLIuI6Q aoMq/4EaryLYoMm5tehOatFwEDybHki6M2nIROOL+beMRsnKoAUfqTbCscoR9sDw1KQ6 1GgvNJKsvew/nE+XQQtBDpfEnQ58/7trDDR058w5OZJNxelfyfk/1OVM23LBz+slFwjO I0JlKYpv7vLZFXGixk1n1mSExNmMFnDLowfDxg6Xzt2Emv30mjC+JnTi5GrnVyM/65Xm XUxg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVqOClbo9GTTLvDHHCtgWwg4a9+4er9pKP3yrAsiDsNKAX49XJXUg77ybV5x3L03Hwfq0hq4uSI9V3lp24=@vger.kernel.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwIg9PePPwkqfCXJgtTKJ9Z5G6NeQcQvw8B2qzsqFGLbqis9hSE tJwGw8mdiZl2w8jNXZ2s69SZE0oJv0KSPnR9SG+xAiZ5my2MtNeV91o7mEvJhVLP+YbrmIBPcHR Zzef4QJKOl5nePM1tpA== X-Received: from ejav26.prod.google.com ([2002:a17:906:339a:b0:b94:578:d46e]) (user=aliceryhl job=prod-delivery.src-stubby-dispatcher) by 2002:a17:907:e117:b0:b96:f7c7:6233 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b96f7c76586mr210194966b.19.1773128860572; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 00:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 07:47:39 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20260309142400.596f5010@kernel.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20260306-binder-netlink-v1-0-daceb5bc83f2@google.com> <20260307104131.4c1d0de5@kernel.org> <20260307135941.51353a4f@kernel.org> <20260309142400.596f5010@kernel.org> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/4] Rust netlink support + use in Rust Binder From: Alice Ryhl To: Jakub Kicinski Cc: Miguel Ojeda , Boqun Feng , Gary Guo , "=?utf-8?B?QmrDtnJu?= Roy Baron" , Benno Lossin , Andreas Hindborg , Trevor Gross , Danilo Krummrich , Donald Hunter , "David S. Miller" , Eric Dumazet , Paolo Abeni , Simon Horman , Greg Kroah-Hartman , "Arve =?utf-8?B?SGrDuG5uZXbDpWc=?=" , Todd Kjos , Christian Brauner , Carlos Llamas , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Mon, Mar 09, 2026 at 02:24:00PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 22:50:31 +0000 Alice Ryhl wrote: > > > > To be honest, I'm not entirely happy with what Binder is using netlink > > > > for either, but it is what it is. > > > > > > If we're both not happy let's take this opportunity to find a better > > > solution? > > > > My understanding is that userspace is already using or looking into > > using the netlink uapi that Binder exposes here. I don't know to what > > extent; it's not used *that* much yet, but it may still be tricky to > > change the uapi at this point. > > Let's explore it? What user space components would need to be updated? > What's a better design? Well ... the thing I'm the most unhappy about is needing to have a userspace daemon that is notified about all transaction failures to begin with. But if you must have such a daemon, I think the netlink based API is an okay way to do it. You can easily add new fields in the future, and it implements notifications to userspace on our behalf. Though using raw pids in the netlink messages is pretty ugly ... pids can change, and the pid namespace of the receiving proc ends up ignored. Alice