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From: David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>
To: Jeff Xu <jeffxu@chromium.org>,
	Lorenzo Stoakes <lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Liam R . Howlett" <Liam.Howlett@oracle.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Pedro Falcato <pfalcato@suse.de>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 2/5] mm/mseal: update madvise() logic
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2025 20:56:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ab45d2f2-a34e-4ec7-8a49-03d166e6215a@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABi2SkU75e7tXcpgnLbDhqSJBWVPOvmfMh2uPsU3mUjMUhhYqw@mail.gmail.com>

> 
> To summarize all the discussion points so far:
> 1. It's questionable behavior for madvise to allow destructive
> behavior for read-only anonymous mappings, regardless of mseal state.
 > 2. We could potentially fix point 1 within madvise itself, without> 
involving mseal, as Linus desires.

IIUC: disallow madvise(MADV_DONTNEED) without PROT_WRITE.

I am 99.99999% sure that that would break user case, unfortunately.

> 3. Android userspace uses destructive madvise to free up RAM, but I
> need to take a closer look at the patterns and usage to understand why
> they do that.

I am shocked that you question why they would use MADV_DONTNEED instead 
of ...

 > 4. We could ask applications to switch to non-destructive madvise,> 
like MADV_COLD or MADV_PAGEOUT. Or, another option is that we could
> switch the kernel to use non-destructive madvise implicitly for
> destructive madvise in suitable situations.

... MADV_COLD / MADV_PAGEOUT.

I am also shocked that you think asking apps to switch would not make us 
break user space.

> 5. We could investigate more based on vma->anon_vma

Or we do what sealing is supposed to do.

With the hope that this sealing fix here would not break user space.

-- 
Cheers,

David / dhildenb


  reply	other threads:[~2025-07-24 18:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-07-16 17:38 [PATCH v3 0/5] mseal cleanups, fixup MAP_PRIVATE file-backed case Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-16 17:38 ` [PATCH v3 1/5] mm/mseal: always define VM_SEALED Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-24 18:34   ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-24 18:44     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-16 17:38 ` [PATCH v3 2/5] mm/mseal: update madvise() logic Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-24 18:39   ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-24 18:56     ` David Hildenbrand [this message]
2025-07-24 22:18       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-24 19:07     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-24 21:53       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25  6:17         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-25 16:22         ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-24 21:15   ` Kees Cook
2025-07-24 21:32     ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-24 21:41       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-24 22:29         ` Kees Cook
2025-07-24 22:47           ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25  7:41             ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25  5:49     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-25 16:21     ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-24 22:12   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25  7:01     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-25  7:38       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25  8:53         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-25  9:46           ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25 10:05             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-25 10:10               ` David Hildenbrand
2025-07-25 10:17                 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-16 17:38 ` [PATCH v3 3/5] mm/mseal: small cleanups Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-24 18:40   ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-16 17:38 ` [PATCH v3 4/5] mm/mseal: Simplify and rename VMA gap check Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-24 18:40   ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-25  5:33     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-16 17:38 ` [PATCH v3 5/5] mm/mseal: rework mseal apply logic Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-24 18:41   ` Jeff Xu
2025-07-24 18:32 ` [PATCH v3 0/5] mseal cleanups, fixup MAP_PRIVATE file-backed case Jeff Xu
2025-07-24 19:10   ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-07-25  6:40 ` Lorenzo Stoakes

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