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From: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: Kiryl Shutsemau <kas@kernel.org>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	 "K. Y. Srinivasan" <kys@microsoft.com>,
	Haiyang Zhang <haiyangz@microsoft.com>,
	Wei Liu <wei.liu@kernel.org>,  Dexuan Cui <decui@microsoft.com>,
	Long Li <longli@microsoft.com>,
	 Ajay Kaher <ajay.kaher@broadcom.com>,
	Alexey Makhalov <alexey.makhalov@broadcom.com>,
	 Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	 Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Juergen Gross <jgross@suse.com>,
	 Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>,
	 John Stultz <jstultz@google.com>,
	Rick Edgecombe <rick.p.edgecombe@intel.com>,
	 Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@redhat.com>,
	 Broadcom internal kernel review list
	<bcm-kernel-feedback-list@broadcom.com>,
	 Boris Ostrovsky <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>,
	x86@kernel.org,  linux-coco@lists.linux.dev, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-hyperv@vger.kernel.org,  virtualization@lists.linux.dev,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,  xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org,
	Michael Kelley <mhklinux@outlook.com>,
	 Tom Lendacky <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	Nikunj A Dadhania <nikunj@amd.com>,
	 Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 02/41] x86/tsc: Add helper to register CPU and TSC freq calibration routines
Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 13:53:35 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ag9wz3RiJOtVZrK0@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <44e0d60548d317fd59895f18bd17220dfb2f834b.camel@infradead.org>

On Wed, May 20, 2026, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Fri, 2026-05-15 at 12:19 -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > Add a helper to register non-native, i.e. PV and CoCo, CPU and TSC
> > frequency calibration routines.  This will allow consolidating handling
> > of common TSC properties that are forced by hypervisor (PV routines),
> > and will also allow adding sanity checks to guard against overriding a
> > TSC calibration routine with a routine that is less robust/trusted.
> > 
> > Make the CPU calibration routine optional, as Xen (very sanely) doesn't
> > assume the CPU runs as the same frequency as the TSC.
> > 
> > Wrap the helper in an #ifdef to document that the kernel overrides
> > the native routines when running as a VM, and to guard against unwanted
> > usage.  Add a TODO to call out that AMD_MEM_ENCRYPT is a mess and doesn't
> > depend on HYPERVISOR_GUEST because it gates both guest and host code.
> > 
> > No functional change intended.
> > 
> > Reviewed-by: Michael Kelley <mhklinux@outlook.com>
> > Tested-by: Michael Kelley <mhklinux@outlook.com>
> > Signed-off-by: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
> 
> Mildly concerned that we might want to support multiple options — does
> it have CPUID 0x15? Does it have 0x40000x10? Does it have a pvclock?
> There are various permutations of those which are perhaps best handled
> by *trying* each one, in some order, and populating a struct with the
> answers?
> 
> But on the basis that perfect is the enemy of good,

This has been bothering me too.

Aha!  AHA!  Idea.

... 4 hours later ...

Mhahahaahah, victory is mine!!!!

TL;DR: Overriding x86_platform_ops hooks is dumb.

To your point about making an informed decision, that's essentialy what this series
is already doing, just in a very roundabout way:

  1. x86_platform.calibrate_{cpu,tsc}() are initialized to "native" versions
  2. Hypervisor init code runs and conditionally overrides calibrate_{cpu,tsc}()
  3. CoCo init code runs and conditionally overrides calibrate_{cpu,tsc}()

So the ordering you want is already there, as is "trying" each source to some
extent, in the form of steps #2 and #3 overriding the hooks if and only if their
source of information is valid.  For all intents and purposes, the hardening I
was adding by formalizing the calibration overrides was to enforce the above ordering.

But that's obviously all but impossible to follow, _and_ it's pointless.

For every PV case, including TDX and SNP, "calibration" is simply information
retrieval, i.e. it never changes (barring broken hypervisors/firmware), and the
information is always available during early boot.

Contrast that with the pre-CPUID CPU frequency calibration, where the frequency
might change, the kernel is making a best guest based on other timekeeping sources,
and not all timekeeping sources are available during early boot.

And so overriding x86_platform.calibrate_{cpu,tsc}() for PV code is completely
unecessary, because steps #2 and #3 already know the frequency when they override
the hooks, and "success" is guaranteed, i.e. the kernel won't have to switch to a
"late" calibration flow.

If we provide x86_hyper_init hooks:

	unsigned int (*get_tsc_khz)(void);
	unsigned int (*get_cpu_khz)(void);

then we can kill off x86_platform.calibrate_{cpu,tsc}() entirely, explicitly
define the preferred ordering (user-forced => CoCo => Hypervisor => native), and
depup some of the hypervisor code.

E.g. this is what I've got for the early flow.  Testing now. 

  void __init tsc_early_init(void)
  {
	unsigned int known_cpu_khz = 0, known_tsc_khz = 0;

	if (!boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_TSC))
		return;
	/* Don't change UV TSC multi-chassis synchronization */
	if (is_early_uv_system())
		return;

	if (x86_init.hyper.get_cpu_khz)
		known_cpu_khz = x86_init.hyper.get_cpu_khz();

	if (tsc_early_khz)
		known_tsc_khz = tsc_early_khz;
	else if (cc_platform_has(CC_ATTR_GUEST_SNP_SECURE_TSC))
		known_tsc_khz = snp_secure_tsc_init();
	else if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_TDX_GUEST))
		known_tsc_khz = tdx_tsc_init();

	/*
	 * If the TSC frequency is still unknown, i.e. not provided by the user
	 * or by trusted firmware, try to get it from the hypervisor (which is
	 * untrusted when running as a CoCo guest).
	 */
	if (!known_tsc_khz && x86_init.hyper.get_tsc_khz)
		known_tsc_khz = x86_init.hyper.get_tsc_khz();

	if (known_tsc_khz)
		setup_force_cpu_cap(X86_FEATURE_TSC_KNOWN_FREQ);

	if (!determine_cpu_tsc_frequencies(true, known_cpu_khz, known_tsc_khz))
		return;
	tsc_enable_sched_clock();
  }

  parent reply	other threads:[~2026-05-21 20:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-05-15 19:19 [PATCH v3 00/41] x86: Try to wrangle PV clocks vs. TSC Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 01/41] x86/tsc: Add a standalone helpers for getting TSC info from CPUID.0x15 Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 18:59   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 02/41] x86/tsc: Add helper to register CPU and TSC freq calibration routines Sean Christopherson
2026-05-18 21:59   ` Woodhouse, David
2026-05-20 17:56     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 19:04   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 20:44     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:19       ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 21:33         ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:44           ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-21 20:53     ` Sean Christopherson [this message]
2026-05-21 21:01       ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-21 21:17         ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-21 21:37           ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 03/41] x86/sev: Mark TSC as reliable when configuring Secure TSC Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 19:06   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 04/41] x86/sev: Move check for SNP Secure TSC support to tsc_early_init() Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 19:16   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 05/41] x86/tdx: Override PV calibration routines with CPUID-based calibration Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 19:52   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 06/41] x86/acrn: Mark TSC frequency as known when using ACRN for calibration Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 20:01   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 21:02     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 07/41] clocksource: hyper-v: Register sched_clock save/restore iff it's necessary Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:27   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 08/41] clocksource: hyper-v: Drop wrappers to sched_clock save/restore helpers Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:29   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 09/41] clocksource: hyper-v: Don't save/restore TSC offset when using HV sched_clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:30   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 10/41] x86/kvmclock: Setup kvmclock for secondary CPUs iff CONFIG_SMP=y Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:45   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 11/41] x86/kvm: Don't disable kvmclock on BSP in syscore_suspend() Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:51   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 12/41] x86/paravirt: Remove unnecessary PARAVIRT=n stub for paravirt_set_sched_clock() Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:53   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 13/41] x86/paravirt: Move handling of unstable PV clocks into paravirt_set_sched_clock() Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:57   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 14/41] x86/kvmclock: Move sched_clock save/restore helpers up in kvmclock.c Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 21:59   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 15/41] x86/xen/time: Nullify x86_platform's sched_clock save/restore hooks Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:11   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 22:54     ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 16/41] x86/vmware: Nullify save/restore hooks when using VMware's sched_clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:15   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 17/41] x86/tsc: WARN if TSC sched_clock save/restore used with PV sched_clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:27   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 18/41] x86/paravirt: Pass sched_clock save/restore helpers during registration Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:35   ` Woodhouse, David
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 19/41] x86/kvmclock: Move kvm_sched_clock_init() down in kvmclock.c Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:39   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 20/41] x86/xen/time: Mark xen_setup_vsyscall_time_info() as __init Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:40   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 21/41] x86/pvclock: Mark setup helpers and related various as __init/__ro_after_init Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:43   ` Woodhouse, David
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 22/41] x86/pvclock: WARN if pvclock's valid_flags are overwritten Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:44   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 23/41] x86/kvmclock: Refactor handling of PVCLOCK_TSC_STABLE_BIT during kvmclock_init() Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:46   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 24/41] timekeeping: Resume clocksources before reading persistent clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 22:52   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 25/41] x86/kvmclock: Hook clocksource.suspend/resume when kvmclock isn't sched_clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:01   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 23:06   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 26/41] x86/kvmclock: WARN if wall clock is read while kvmclock is suspended Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:19   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 27/41] x86/kvmclock: Enable kvmclock on APs during onlining if kvmclock isn't sched_clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:27   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-21 12:59     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-21 13:10       ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-05-21 13:38         ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-21 14:13           ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 28/41] x86/paravirt: Mark __paravirt_set_sched_clock() as __init Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:42   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 29/41] x86/paravirt: Plumb a return code into __paravirt_set_sched_clock() Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:44   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-21 20:35     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 30/41] x86/paravirt: Don't use a PV sched_clock in CoCo guests with trusted TSC Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:45   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 31/41] x86/tsc: Pass KNOWN_FREQ and RELIABLE as params to registration Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:49   ` Woodhouse, David
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 32/41] x86/tsc: Rejects attempts to override TSC calibration with lesser routine Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:50   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 33/41] x86/kvmclock: Mark TSC as reliable when it's constant and nonstop Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:51   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 34/41] KVM: x86: Officially define CPUID 0x40000010 as PV Timing Info (TSC and Bus) Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 35/41] x86/kvmclock: Obtain TSC frequency from CPUID if present Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 36/41] x86/kvmclock: Get local APIC bus frequency from PV CPUID Timing Info Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:55   ` Woodhouse, David
2026-05-21 20:34     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 37/41] x86/kvmclock: Use TSC for sched_clock if it's constant and non-stop Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:56   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-21  9:14   ` Dongli Zhang
2026-05-21 21:01     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 38/41] x86/paravirt: kvmclock: Setup kvmclock early iff it's sched_clock Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 23:59   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 39/41] x86/paravirt: Move using_native_sched_clock() stub into timer.h Sean Christopherson
2026-05-21  0:00   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 40/41] x86/tsc: Add standalone helper for getting CPU frequency from CPUID Sean Christopherson
2026-05-16  7:42   ` Paolo Bonzini
2026-05-20 18:50     ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-15 19:19 ` [PATCH v3 41/41] x86/kvmclock: Get CPU base frequency from CPUID when it's available Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 18:52   ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 19:06     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-18 21:11 ` [PATCH v3 00/41] x86: Try to wrangle PV clocks vs. TSC Sean Christopherson
2026-05-18 23:38 ` David Woodhouse
2026-05-20 17:59   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-05-20 18:30     ` David Woodhouse

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