From: daw@mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner)
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes
Date: 22 Aug 2002 03:33:18 GMT [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ak1m1u$drl$5@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.44.0208172151440.1829-100000@home.transmeta.com
Linus Torvalds wrote:
>If you make /dev/random useless ("but you can use /dev/urandom instead")
>then we should not have it.
There's a purpose for /dev/random, but it's a special case.
For the common case, /dev/urandom is a much better choice
than /dev/random. Sadly, the naming was poorly chosen, IMHO;
I feel /dev/urandom ought to be the default choice, and /dev/random
should be only for those who know what they're doing and have
a special need.
The special case where /dev/random is needed is applications
that (1) are managing their own user-level randomness pools,
(2) need forward security, and (3) can't rely on the kernel to
provide the forward security.
In more detail:
(1) Why would an app want to manage its own randomness pool?
I don't know, but possibly for better performance.
(2) Suppose someone breaks into your firewall / IPSec gateway.
You don't want them to be able to muck through memory and
deduce all past and future session keys. The solution?
Once a day, you collect 128 bits of true randomness and do
a "catastrophic reseed": you hash them into the pool all at
once. Then you can be sure that anyone who breaks into your
machine won't be able to get more than a day's worth of past
IPSec keys, and once you kick the hacker off, they won't be
able to predict more than a day's worth of future keys.
(3) The kernel should be doing catastrophic reseeding of
/dev/urandom's pool. However, if the application manages
its own randomness pool, it will need to take responsibility
for doing its own catastrophic reseeding.
If all these conditions are satisfied, the application will need
true randomness, so that it can do its catastrophic reseeding.
But this doesn't seem to be the common case, as far as I can tell.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-08-22 3:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-08-18 2:15 [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 2:23 ` [PATCH] (1/4) " Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 2:26 ` [PATCH] (2/4) Update input drivers Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 2:29 ` [PATCH] (3/4) SA_RANDOM user fixup Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 2:32 ` [PATCH] (4/4) entropy batching update Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 2:30 ` [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 2:59 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 3:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 3:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 4:42 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 4:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 5:05 ` Dmitri
2002-08-18 6:18 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-22 3:33 ` David Wagner [this message]
2002-08-18 10:30 ` Alan Cox
2002-08-18 15:08 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 17:31 ` Jonathan Lundell
2002-08-22 3:27 ` David Wagner
2002-08-18 4:30 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-21 8:44 ` Rogier Wolff
2002-08-21 12:47 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 5:28 ` Andreas Dilger
2002-08-18 5:53 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-22 3:25 ` David Wagner
2002-08-18 3:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 3:51 ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 4:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 5:38 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-19 4:21 ` Theodore Ts'o
2002-08-19 10:15 ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 10:25 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-08-19 11:03 ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 14:22 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-08-19 15:21 ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 16:29 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-08-19 12:39 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 6:31 ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 6:48 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 4:06 ` dean gaudet
2002-08-18 4:44 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 7:31 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2002-08-18 9:48 ` Ralf Baechle
2002-08-20 12:51 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2002-08-18 16:58 ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 10:25 ` Alan Cox
2002-08-19 10:47 ` Marco Colombo
2002-08-19 12:29 ` Alan Cox
2002-08-19 12:56 ` Marco Colombo
2002-09-08 3:43 ` D. Hugh Redelmeier
2002-09-08 18:03 ` David Wagner
2002-09-09 16:53 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 16:58 ` David Wagner
2002-09-09 19:47 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 23:22 ` David Wagner
2002-09-16 22:51 ` dean gaudet
2002-09-17 1:18 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 18:54 ` Kent Borg
2002-09-09 19:57 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-09 20:11 ` Kent Borg
2002-08-18 4:57 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 4:28 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 4:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 5:24 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 16:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-11-02 10:34 ` Pavel Machek
2002-08-23 20:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-18 17:03 ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 17:31 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 16:54 ` Robert Love
2002-08-18 17:18 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-18 17:20 ` Robert Love
2002-08-19 5:43 ` Theodore Ts'o
2001-11-02 10:05 ` Pavel Machek
2002-08-19 6:06 ` *Challenge* Finding a solution (When kernel boots it does not display any system info) louie miranda
2002-08-19 7:30 ` Gilad Ben-Yossef
2002-08-19 7:30 ` Ryan Cumming
2002-08-20 0:55 ` louie miranda
2002-08-19 13:52 ` [PATCH] (0/4) Entropy accounting fixes Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-20 8:59 ` Tommi Kyntola
2002-08-20 13:21 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-08-20 16:19 ` Tommi Kyntola
2002-08-20 17:22 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-08 3:51 ` D. Hugh Redelmeier
2002-09-08 4:31 ` Oliver Xymoron
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-08-18 4:57 David Brownell
2002-08-18 6:02 ` Oliver Xymoron
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