From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1756441Ab0CDWyX (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:54:23 -0500 Received: from smtp1.linux-foundation.org ([140.211.169.13]:42007 "EHLO smtp1.linux-foundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1755313Ab0CDWyV (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:54:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:54:03 -0800 (PST) From: Linus Torvalds X-X-Sender: torvalds@localhost.localdomain To: Stephane Marchesin cc: Matthew Garrett , Dave Airlie , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.sf.net Subject: Re: [git pull] drm request 3 In-Reply-To: <6a89f9d51003041257j39fde3b6y8bd3336d77f7cf7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <20100304185002.GA23532@srcf.ucam.org> <20100304190450.GA23807@srcf.ucam.org> <20100304192524.GA24253@srcf.ucam.org> <20100304195302.GA24856@srcf.ucam.org> <6a89f9d51003041257j39fde3b6y8bd3336d77f7cf7a@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LFD 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, 4 Mar 2010, Stephane Marchesin wrote: > > In short, the "don't break user space interfaces" principle is making > user space code quality worse for everyone. And it makes our lives as > graphics developers pretty miserable actually And _my_ point is that if you did a half-way decent job on versioning, you wouldn't be in the crappy situation you are now. For chissake, the DRM versioning model is a total disaster. The reason you can never ever break user space interfaces is exactly because when you break them, X stops working. What I suggested is to _keep_ a working model across different versions, so that you can get out of the rat-hole you are in now (and the rat-hole you put your users into, and the distributions). It's simply _not_ acceptable to tie the X server and the kernel version so tightly together as the crazy DRM model does right now. It's not all that different from us requiring people to install a new glibc every once in a while, just because we added a new filesystem. Everybody understands that that would be totally insane. Why does the X community not understand simple library versioning? Linus