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From: Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@huawei.com>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@huaweicloud.com>,
	"paulmck@kernel.org" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	"parri.andrea@gmail.com" <parri.andrea@gmail.com>,
	"will@kernel.org" <will@kernel.org>,
	"peterz@infradead.org" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"boqun.feng@gmail.com" <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	"npiggin@gmail.com" <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	"dhowells@redhat.com" <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	"j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk" <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
	"luc.maranget@inria.fr" <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
	"akiyks@gmail.com" <akiyks@gmail.com>,
	"dlustig@nvidia.com" <dlustig@nvidia.com>,
	"joel@joelfernandes.org" <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
	"urezki@gmail.com" <urezki@gmail.com>,
	"quic_neeraju@quicinc.com" <quic_neeraju@quicinc.com>,
	"frederic@kernel.org" <frederic@kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH] tools: memory-model: Make plain accesses carry dependencies
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2022 11:47:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bcacee1a2ce84123a664d783d108050e@huawei.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Y4pec7lfQHwmH4V/@rowland.harvard.edu>



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Stern [mailto:stern@rowland.harvard.edu] 
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 9:22 PM

> > void *y[2];
> > void *x[2] = { (void*)&y[1], (void*)&y[0] };
> > 
> > P0() {
> >     void **t = (void**)(x[0]);

> Now t holds a pointer to y[1].

Unfortunately, this kind of inductive reasoning (arguing about what happens based on what happened "before") is not possible with memory models that allow OOTA; as you put it, one must allow for loads reading from stores that haven't happened yet.
One such store (I promise!(*)) is a store to x[0] which writes &x[1]. Let's consider the alternative universe where we read from this future store, so now t holds a pointer to x[1].

> >     *t = (void*)(t-1);

> And now y[1] holds a pointer to y[0].

In our alternative universe, x[1] now holds a pointer to x[0].


> > }
> > P1() {
> >     void **u = (void**)(x[1]);	

> Now u holds a pointer to y[0].

In our alternative universe, u holds the pointer to x[0] stored by P0().

> >     *u = (void*)(u+1);

> And now y[0] holds a pointer to y[1].

In our alternative universe, now x[0] holds a pointer to x[1]. Behold, the store I promised would happen!

> > }

> The contents of x[] never get changed, so there's no question about the values of t and u.

They might get changed, by the stores *t=... and *u=...

Have fun,
Jonas

(*= because this example is provided free of charge, there is no actual promise, to the extent permitted by applicable law)

  reply	other threads:[~2022-12-03 11:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-12-01 12:18 [PATCH] tools: memory-model: Make plain accesses carry dependencies Jonas Oberhauser
2022-12-01 16:02 ` Alan Stern
2022-12-01 17:21   ` Jonas Oberhauser
2022-12-01 20:21     ` Alan Stern
2022-12-02 17:22       ` Jonas Oberhauser
2022-12-02 20:22         ` Alan Stern
2022-12-03 11:47           ` Jonas Oberhauser [this message]
2022-12-03 15:20             ` Alan Stern
2022-12-03 19:04             ` Paul E. McKenney

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