From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF61EC67863 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:49:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93CE82082F for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:49:21 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 93CE82082F Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727669AbeJXRQb (ORCPT ); Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:16:31 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f196.google.com ([209.85.222.196]:46894 "EHLO mail-qk1-f196.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726720AbeJXRQb (ORCPT ); Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:16:31 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f196.google.com with SMTP id a193-v6so2620411qkc.13 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:49:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=v9gD44pBd3zh4Ilz402wt5bdubAQPKJ5oEuVf6RtxN0=; b=SAaB+JyG0uniIdRIzhJmwENhEIaClu8oj0vR+zyLNnWrChx90n7EWw58mErFbw8XoF Vogq6ZGVzM4LlOeC3GflfxBpf7x8t1W/m58Z7rbe2yxHvL7pOnxHD9FMAm3ldJKM8HTy 9rjIZKVh4eUIOpcdadqmbcYOhl7wpV05L59/+cO/b/hVyMzX2JNXA8Sr94mkoW5d8w8l g5mm9XSxJQveyWcvpqnxc6uvdJYka6ERmTvTM2gIF5nB1cFwbqvgVvYGSDzGaQzGdJvz 58To9WyBtb/vy7/peAGtT+ivbaC+oeY1vI/hicPor1Da4eUq3OE3igP6GvX1nfBjvy1z iftQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJcLqGzZCqexSjld4KoOukiRlShKz7uT2wac91wb+JjpTj2yN7I enxTZIelcv1EcOM9805UiaHB5Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dLnJxNPFjWxce/BZwTEu8fLnnoH6ITLadCGQ+SWK0/IKrj2O5hKLdcgQ7fspguRknKiCTckg== X-Received: by 2002:a37:914:: with SMTP id 20-v6mr1455008qkj.135.1540370958475; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.15.240.149] ([109.144.210.120]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 23-v6sm2079778qkn.11.2018.10.24.01.49.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document To: NeilBrown , Greg Kroah-Hartman , linux-kernel , Linus Torvalds Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Thomas Gleixner , Olof Johansson , Chris Mason , Mishi Choudhary References: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com> <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> From: Laura Abbott Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:49:14 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 10/21/2018 02:20 PM, NeilBrown wrote: > I call on the community to consider what *does* need to be said, about > conduct, to people outside the community and who have recently joined. > What is the document that you would have liked to have read as you were > starting out? It is all too long ago for me to remember clearly, and so > much has changed. > I joined much more recently than many and what I would have wanted then is an interesting question. I probably would _not_ have wanted a code of conduct when I first started working in open source. I also said things in my younger years I regret and probably wouldn't have said if I was held to a higher standard of conduct. Younger me frequently put up with behavior I wouldn't tolerate today. Younger me also greatly benefited from the experience of other kernel developers giving me firm feedback in a helpful way and saying no to bad approaches. I don't believe I would have continued if I hadn't been given that feedback in a useful way. Today, I think the code of conduct is a very important addition to the community. It's a stronger assertion that the kernel community is committed to raising the bar for behavior. I have no concern about patch review or quality dropping because most maintainers demonstrate every day that they can give effective feedback. We're all going to screw that up sometimes and the Code of Conduct reminds us to do our best. Most issues that arise can be resolved with a private e-mail going "you might want to rethink your wording there." What the Code of Conduct also provides is confidence that more serious community issues such as harassment not related to patch review can be handled. It spells out certain behaviors that won't be tolerated and explains how those problems will be dealt with. Will those problems actually be handled appropriately when the time comes? I can't actually say for sure, but the kernel community works on trust so I guess I have to trust that it will. I really hope I never have to report harassment but I'm glad there's a process in place. Thanks, Laura