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From: ebiederm@xmission.com (Eric W. Biederman)
To: Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove Bitkeeper documentation from Linux tree
Date: 20 Apr 2002 11:53:11 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m1elha45q0.fsf@frodo.biederman.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E16ya3u-0000RG-00@starship>

Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net> writes:

> Hi Linus,
> 
> I have up to this point been open to the use of Bitkeeper as a development
> aid for Linux, and, again up to this point, have intended to make use of 
> Bitkeeper myself, taking a pragmatic attitude towards the concept of using 
> the best tool for the job.  However, now I see that Bitkeeper documentation 
> has quietly been inserted ino the Linux Documentation directory, and that 
> without any apparent discussion on lkml.  I fear that this demonstrates that 
> those who have called the use of Bitkeeper a slippery slope do have a point 
> after all.

Daniel I agree that there are some real dangers to using a proprietary
tool, and have seen it severely affect a project.  

The primary problem is that some developers are not able to
participate because they do not have the tool. 

Given that bitkeeper is currently freely available, and that people
can still send raw patches I do not see that people are currently
being excluded on basis of the tool they use.

I can see the potential for this to break down.  However we should
not be crying wolf until this actually does break down.

There is exactly one point where religious attitudes are important.
Because of them some people will not use a non-free tool.  So for a
wide spread project there must be some way for them to participate.
diffs are still being accepted, so these people do have a to
participate.

Eric






  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-04-20 18:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 328+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-04-19 15:12 [PATCH] Remove Bitkeeper documentation from Linux tree Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 15:52 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 16:16   ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-20 16:25     ` David Lang
2002-04-20 17:05       ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-20 17:16         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-20 16:25     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-19 16:33       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 16:56         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-19 17:17           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 17:35             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-20 17:38           ` Thunder from the hill
2002-04-21  2:26           ` Ian Molton
2002-06-18 19:12           ` Greg Stark
2002-04-20 17:19       ` [PATCH] " Roman Zippel
2002-04-20 21:03         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 21:36           ` Skip Ford
2002-04-20 21:40             ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-20 23:14               ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-20 21:53             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21  0:04           ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-21  0:17             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21  9:22               ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-04-21 10:05                 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-04-21 10:17                   ` Thunder from the hill
2002-04-21 11:10                 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-21 16:46                   ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-04-21 17:00                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:05                     ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-21 17:14                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 13:18                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-21 13:41                   ` yodaiken
2002-04-21 16:50                     ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-04-21 17:18                       ` yodaiken
2002-04-21 15:17                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 16:32             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 16:46               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 16:57                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 17:11                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 12:06               ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-22 16:39                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-23 13:49                   ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-23 14:51                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-22 15:29                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-23 17:00                         ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-23 18:12                           ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-23 15:13                       ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-23 15:17                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-23 15:35                           ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-23 15:37                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-23 16:04                               ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-23 17:01                                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-23 17:06                                   ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-23 15:05                     ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-23 15:27                       ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-21  2:30           ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21 15:33             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 15:46               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 15:59                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 23:36                   ` Ian Molton
2002-04-26 21:58                     ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-20 16:37   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-19 16:45     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 16:54       ` Alexander Viro
2002-04-21  2:36       ` Ian Molton
2002-04-20 15:54 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 16:29   ` Nils Philippsen
2002-04-20 16:56     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21  2:38   ` Ian Molton
2002-04-20 16:13 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-19 16:21   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 16:51     ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-19 17:05       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 17:09         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-19 17:32           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 17:51             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-19 21:02               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 21:07                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-19 22:01                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 22:20                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-19 22:34                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 22:54                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21  1:41                         ` Rob Landley
2002-04-20 15:44                           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 15:52                             ` Rob Landley
2002-04-21 15:59                             ` Russell King
2002-04-20 16:10                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 16:15                                 ` Russell King
2002-04-21 16:15                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 16:02                             ` arjan
2002-04-20 22:30                     ` Stelian Pop
2002-04-21  2:46                       ` Ian Molton
2002-04-20 22:37                     ` Russell King
2002-04-20 23:15                     ` Kenneth Johansson
2002-04-20 17:05                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 17:15                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21  1:38                   ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-04-21 15:32                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 22:00                 ` Stevie O
2002-04-20 22:14                   ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-21  2:48                     ` Ian Molton
2002-04-20 22:31                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:16                 ` Suggestion " CaT
2002-04-21 17:40                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-20 17:50                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 17:54                       ` CaT
2002-04-21 18:11                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 18:20                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 18:23                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 18:12                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 18:23                           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 18:30                             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 19:01                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-23  6:04                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-04-22 10:44                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 10:47                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-23 10:57                                     ` Rasmus Andersen
2002-04-21 22:08                       ` Barry K. Nathan
2002-04-21 17:48                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:54                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:59                         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 18:18                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-23 12:10                         ` Jes Sorensen
2002-04-23 15:02                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-23 15:07                             ` Jes Sorensen
2002-04-23 15:12                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-23 16:06                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-04-24  9:03                             ` David Woodhouse
2002-04-24 11:33                               ` Dave Jones
2002-04-21 18:53                     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-21 18:25                   ` Tigran Aivazian
2002-04-20 17:51             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-19 18:27               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 17:51                 ` Rob Landley
2002-04-20 18:41                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 17:15         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 17:19         ` Dave Jones
2002-04-20 17:58       ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-04-20 18:35         ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-20 18:13     ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-19 19:43       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 20:04         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21  2:53           ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21  1:46         ` Rob Landley
2002-04-21 15:51           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 16:26             ` Tigran Aivazian
2002-04-20 16:34               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 16:27     ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-20 16:36       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 16:45         ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-20 17:41 ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-19 18:07   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 17:53 ` Eric W. Biederman [this message]
2002-04-19 18:15   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 18:44     ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-04-19 19:22       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 18:48     ` Russell King
2002-04-19 19:19       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21  2:57       ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21  2:56         ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-04-21  3:46           ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21  3:43             ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-04-21  4:05             ` BK, deltas, snapshots and fate of -pre Alexander Viro
2002-04-21  1:53               ` Rob Landley
2002-04-21 18:40                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-21 23:08                   ` Pavel Machek
2002-04-24  2:23                     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-21  3:59               ` David S. Miller
2002-04-21  4:32                 ` Andrew Morton
2002-04-21  5:59                   ` Andreas Dilger
2002-04-21  4:13               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-21 12:53                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 15:44                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 15:50                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 16:10                       ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 16:21                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:17                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:34                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:38                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:49                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:53                                   ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 18:09                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 19:53                               ` Doug Ledford
2002-04-21 20:29                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 20:53                                   ` Doug Ledford
2002-04-21 21:05                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 21:21                                       ` Doug Ledford
2002-04-21 21:37                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 21:45                                           ` Alexander Viro
2002-04-22 22:49                                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-22 22:08                                           ` Doug Ledford
2002-04-22 22:25                                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-22 21:25                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-22 21:30                                         ` Doug Ledford
2002-04-22 21:33                                       ` Nicholas Harring
2002-04-25 20:53                                     ` Kai Henningsen
2002-04-21 23:16                                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-04-23 20:45                                   ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-25  3:51                                     ` Ian Molton
2002-04-25  3:55                                       ` Olivier Galibert
2002-04-25 12:38                                         ` Ian Molton
2002-04-25 13:33                                       ` David Woodhouse
2002-04-25 14:29                                         ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-25 15:41                                       ` Rik van Riel
2002-04-22 17:31                             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-27 18:59                             ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-26 20:19                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-28 17:42                                 ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-26 20:38                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-28 17:52                                 ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-27 20:02                               ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-28 17:40                                 ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-28 18:08                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-28 18:47                                     ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-28 19:07                                       ` Kiss The Blade
2002-04-28 19:27                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-04-28 19:41                                           ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-28 19:49                                           ` Kiss The Blade
2002-04-28 19:42                                             ` Richard Gooch
2002-04-28 20:03                                           ` tomas szepe
2002-04-28 20:11                                     ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-28 20:40                                       ` Kiss The Blade
2002-04-29  6:55                                         ` Kai Henningsen
2002-04-29  6:55                                         ` Kai Henningsen
2002-04-28 20:06                                   ` Roman Zippel
2002-04-27 20:40                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-22 17:10                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:17                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:19                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:37                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:46                               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-22 17:21                           ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:44                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:48                               ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 18:03                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:52                               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 18:05                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 20:18                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 20:42                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 20:57                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 21:06                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 20:57                                       ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-22 18:01                           ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-21 18:16                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 18:29                               ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-21 18:47                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 19:41                                   ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-23  4:57                               ` Andre Pang
2002-04-22 11:34                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-23  5:56                                 ` Andreas Dilger
2002-04-21  4:31               ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21  4:20                 ` David S. Miller
2002-04-21  4:42                   ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21  4:29                     ` David S. Miller
2002-04-21  4:49                     ` Ben Greear
2002-04-21  6:27                     ` Alexander Viro
2002-04-21 11:18                       ` Ian Molton
2002-04-21 16:28                     ` dean gaudet
2002-04-21 12:57                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 13:14                     ` Impressions of 2.5.8 Matthew D. Pitts
2002-04-21  4:40               ` BK, deltas, snapshots and fate of -pre Skip Ford
2002-04-21  8:31                 ` Russell King
2002-04-21 13:05                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 13:08                     ` Russell King
2002-04-21 20:53                   ` Skip Ford
2002-04-21 16:35                 ` dean gaudet
2002-04-21 17:13               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:23                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:32                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:39                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:45                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:47                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:49                           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:57                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 18:07                               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 18:14                                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 18:24                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 18:26                                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-22  6:33               ` Rusty Russell
2002-04-21 15:36             ` [PATCH] Remove Bitkeeper documentation from Linux tree Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21  9:28           ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-04-21 15:53             ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-04-21 18:11             ` John Alvord
2002-04-21 18:15               ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-04-21 15:35         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 17:09           ` Daniel Phillips
     [not found] <20020421101731.D10525@work.bitmover.com>
2002-04-21 17:22 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 17:48   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 17:55     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 18:07       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-20 18:13       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 18:15         ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-20 18:26           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 18:40             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 18:21         ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-20 18:29           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 18:36             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-20 18:46               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 19:07                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 14:39               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 18:38             ` yodaiken
2002-04-21 18:08     ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-20 18:15       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-21 19:06         ` dean gaudet
2002-04-21 14:53           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:03             ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:27               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:30                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-21 17:47                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 17:40                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 17:57                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 20:47                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-21 20:54                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-04-22 22:04                       ` Davide Libenzi
2002-04-21 20:22           ` Andrew Morton
2002-04-22  0:01             ` Larry McVoy
2002-04-22 20:32             ` Jeff Garzik
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-04-22 18:37 Jonathan A. George
2002-04-22 18:58 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-22 19:19   ` Jonathan A. George
2002-04-22 19:51     ` Alexander Viro
2002-04-22 19:56       ` Jonathan A. George
2002-04-22 20:13         ` Alexander Viro
2002-04-22 19:52     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-22 21:53   ` Jonathan A. George
2002-04-22 19:47 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-04-22 19:54   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-04-22 21:13 ` Rik van Riel

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