HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Timothy Miller]

Hi.  I'm a list member, subscribed as miller@techsource.com, but I am not at 
work right now, so I'm posting from my spam account.  :)

Anyhow, I'm having a heck of a time getting ALSA to work.  I have an ABIT 
KD7, which has the KT400 chipset. I have determined that the applicable 
driver is "via82xx".  I'm using kernel "gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.7-r7".

Right now, the state is that regular digital audio works, but MIDI refuses 
to work, and some other audio channel is on which produces random clicks and 
other such noise.

There's tons I can tell you about my system, but most of what you probably 
need to know about my situation and what questions have been asked, etc can 
be found by looking at this Gentoo forums discussion that I started:  
"http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=193711".  Please have a look and 
see if you can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks!

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Marcel Sebek]

On Mon, Jul 05, 2004 at 12:06:26AM -0400, Timothy Miller wrote:
> Right now, the state is that regular digital audio works, but MIDI refuses 
> to work, and some other audio channel is on which produces random clicks 
> and other such noise.
> 
I wasn't able to get MIDI working too, I guess that these onboard sound
cards doesn't have support for it (but I really don't know).

The random noise could be caused by wrong mixer setting. Try save mixer
settings when you are using OSS, and restore them while running ALSA
(you can use oss-preserve for it).

-- 
Marcel Sebek
jabber: sebek@jabber.cz                     ICQ: 279852819
linux user number: 307850                 GPG ID: 5F88735E
GPG FP: 0F01 BAB8 3148 94DB B95D  1FCA 8B63 CA06 5F88 735E

Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Timothy Miller]

I must once again reiterate my begging for help on this topic.  I've 
gotten lots of help on the gentoo forum, but none of it's fixed my 
problems, and I've only gotten one response on LKML.

*BEG* *BEG* *BEG*

Please, won't someone take pity on me?  :)  Thanks!



Timothy Miller wrote:
> Hi.  I'm a list member, subscribed as miller@techsource.com, but I am 
> not at work right now, so I'm posting from my spam account.  :)
> 
> Anyhow, I'm having a heck of a time getting ALSA to work.  I have an 
> ABIT KD7, which has the KT400 chipset. I have determined that the 
> applicable driver is "via82xx".  I'm using kernel 
> "gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.7-r7".
> 
> Right now, the state is that regular digital audio works, but MIDI 
> refuses to work, and some other audio channel is on which produces 
> random clicks and other such noise.
> 
> There's tons I can tell you about my system, but most of what you 
> probably need to know about my situation and what questions have been 
> asked, etc can be found by looking at this Gentoo forums discussion that 
> I started:  "http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=193711".  Please 
> have a look and see if you can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
> 
> Thanks!
> 

Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Takashi Iwai]

At Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:26:54 -0400,
Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
> I must once again reiterate my begging for help on this topic.  I've 
> gotten lots of help on the gentoo forum, but none of it's fixed my 
> problems, and I've only gotten one response on LKML.
> 
> *BEG* *BEG* *BEG*
> 
> Please, won't someone take pity on me?  :)  Thanks!

via82xx doesn't support MPU401 by itslef although via686 does.

You can try snd-mpu401 module instead.  When ACPI is enabled, the
configuration will be done automatically.
The midi device can be available as the second card.


Takashi

> 
> 
> 
> Timothy Miller wrote:
> > Hi.  I'm a list member, subscribed as miller@techsource.com, but I am 
> > not at work right now, so I'm posting from my spam account.  :)
> > 
> > Anyhow, I'm having a heck of a time getting ALSA to work.  I have an 
> > ABIT KD7, which has the KT400 chipset. I have determined that the 
> > applicable driver is "via82xx".  I'm using kernel 
> > "gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.7-r7".
> > 
> > Right now, the state is that regular digital audio works, but MIDI 
> > refuses to work, and some other audio channel is on which produces 
> > random clicks and other such noise.
> > 
> > There's tons I can tell you about my system, but most of what you 
> > probably need to know about my situation and what questions have been 
> > asked, etc can be found by looking at this Gentoo forums discussion that 
> > I started:  "http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=193711".  Please 
> > have a look and see if you can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Timothy Miller]

Thank you for responding!


Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:26:54 -0400,
> Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
>>I must once again reiterate my begging for help on this topic.  I've 
>>gotten lots of help on the gentoo forum, but none of it's fixed my 
>>problems, and I've only gotten one response on LKML.
>>
>>*BEG* *BEG* *BEG*
>>
>>Please, won't someone take pity on me?  :)  Thanks!
> 
> 
> via82xx doesn't support MPU401 by itslef although via686 does.

I'm not sure if I have via686 or not.  Various tools like lspci don't 
seem to reveal much.

That's one of the problems I keep running into with Linux.  There aren't 
good tools for finding out what you have, and even when you do find out 
what you have, it's hard to figure out which modules you need, because 
the module names don't correspond well with the chipset name. 
Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a good way to relate module names 
with menuconfig entries.  When someone says to use xyz module, I can't 
figure out which menuconfig option to select, so I have to compile ALL 
of them as modules, and when someone tells me to use a given menu 
option, I can't figure out which module corresponds to it.

> You can try snd-mpu401 module instead.  

Well, I have a module snd-mpu401, but when I modprobe it, I get an error 
about a non-existant device.

 > When ACPI is enabled, the
> configuration will be done automatically.
> The midi device can be available as the second card.

Ah, well, I had nightmares trying to use ACPI.  I use just APM for 
things like power-off (power-off works with APM, but not with ACPI). 
Maybe some of the experts can help me to figure out how to get it all to 
work.

I'm about ready to give up on ALSA and go back to OSS.  Maybe someone 
can help me to figure out how to get MIDI sequencing to work with OSS 
instead.  OSS would at least do audio right without noise and popping 
sounds, etc.

I apologize for the impatient nature of this post... I've been 
struggling for weeks to get audio working right with ALSA, but every 
piece of advise I get seems only to make things worse.

 From what I read on various web sites, ALSA for via82xx is so buggy 
that it's really not worth using yet.

Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Takashi Iwai]

At Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:08:47 -0400,
Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
> Thank you for responding!
> 
> 
> Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:26:54 -0400,
> > Timothy Miller wrote:
> > 
> >>I must once again reiterate my begging for help on this topic.  I've 
> >>gotten lots of help on the gentoo forum, but none of it's fixed my 
> >>problems, and I've only gotten one response on LKML.
> >>
> >>*BEG* *BEG* *BEG*
> >>
> >>Please, won't someone take pity on me?  :)  Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > via82xx doesn't support MPU401 by itslef although via686 does.
> 
> I'm not sure if I have via686 or not.  Various tools like lspci don't 
> seem to reveal much.
 
Hmm, lspci must show the string like 'VIA86C686A' or 'VIA8235' ('VIA'
can be 'VT').

> That's one of the problems I keep running into with Linux.  There aren't 
> good tools for finding out what you have, and even when you do find out 
> what you have, it's hard to figure out which modules you need, because 
> the module names don't correspond well with the chipset name. 

You can use alsaconf script.  It will detect the right module.

> Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a good way to relate module names 
> with menuconfig entries.  When someone says to use xyz module, I can't 
> figure out which menuconfig option to select, so I have to compile ALL 
> of them as modules, and when someone tells me to use a given menu 
> option, I can't figure out which module corresponds to it.

That's true.  The sure way would be to retrieve the pci id table from
the source code...

> > You can try snd-mpu401 module instead.  
> 
> Well, I have a module snd-mpu401, but when I modprobe it, I get an error 
> about a non-existant device.

Then you might need to give the correct port number and the irq
number as module parameters.  Perhaps you can get them from BIOS.


>  > When ACPI is enabled, the
> > configuration will be done automatically.
> > The midi device can be available as the second card.
> 
> Ah, well, I had nightmares trying to use ACPI.  I use just APM for 
> things like power-off (power-off works with APM, but not with ACPI). 
> Maybe some of the experts can help me to figure out how to get it all to 
> work.
> 
> I'm about ready to give up on ALSA and go back to OSS.  Maybe someone 
> can help me to figure out how to get MIDI sequencing to work with OSS 
> instead.  OSS would at least do audio right without noise and popping 
> sounds, etc.

I guess you see a kernel message when you load snd-via8xx driver
regarding dxs_support option (suppose that your chip is VIA823x)?

In worst case, you can eliminate the  noises with dxs_support=2
option.


> I apologize for the impatient nature of this post... I've been 
> struggling for weeks to get audio working right with ALSA, but every 
> piece of advise I get seems only to make things worse.
> 
>  From what I read on various web sites, ALSA for via82xx is so buggy 
> that it's really not worth using yet.

Sorry, no, the chipset on many mobos is so buggy :)
That's why we need so many workarounds.

OSS driver has no problem regarding clicking noises because it doesn't
support the DXS channels, the multiple playback.  ALSA supports it as
default.  dxs_support=2 options disables it.
See ALSA-Configuration.txt for details.

Anyway, OSS VIA driver also doesn't support MIDI for VIA823x.
It's for VIA686 only, as well as on ALSA driver.


Takashi

Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 15 July 2004 12:08, Timothy Miller wrote:
>Thank you for responding!
>
>Takashi Iwai wrote:
>> At Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:26:54 -0400,
>>
>> Timothy Miller wrote:
>>>I must once again reiterate my begging for help on this topic. 
>>> I've gotten lots of help on the gentoo forum, but none of it's
>>> fixed my problems, and I've only gotten one response on LKML.
>>>
>>>*BEG* *BEG* *BEG*
>>>
>>>Please, won't someone take pity on me?  :)  Thanks!
>>
>> via82xx doesn't support MPU401 by itslef although via686 does.
>
>I'm not sure if I have via686 or not.  Various tools like lspci
> don't seem to reveal much.
>
>That's one of the problems I keep running into with Linux.  There
> aren't good tools for finding out what you have, and even when you
> do find out what you have, it's hard to figure out which modules
> you need, because the module names don't correspond well with the
> chipset name. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a good way to
> relate module names with menuconfig entries.  When someone says to
> use xyz module, I can't figure out which menuconfig option to
> select, so I have to compile ALL of them as modules, and when
> someone tells me to use a given menu option, I can't figure out
> which module corresponds to it.
>
>> You can try snd-mpu401 module instead.
>
>Well, I have a module snd-mpu401, but when I modprobe it, I get an
> error about a non-existant device.
>
> > When ACPI is enabled, the
>>
>> configuration will be done automatically.
>> The midi device can be available as the second card.
>
>Ah, well, I had nightmares trying to use ACPI.  I use just APM for
>things like power-off (power-off works with APM, but not with ACPI).
>Maybe some of the experts can help me to figure out how to get it
> all to work.
>
>I'm about ready to give up on ALSA and go back to OSS.  Maybe
> someone can help me to figure out how to get MIDI sequencing to
> work with OSS instead.  OSS would at least do audio right without
> noise and popping sounds, etc.
>
>I apologize for the impatient nature of this post... I've been
>struggling for weeks to get audio working right with ALSA, but every
>piece of advise I get seems only to make things worse.
>
> From what I read on various web sites, ALSA for via82xx is so buggy
>that it's really not worth using yet.
>
Humm, then why is everything running fine here, using alsa, on a 
via82xx chipset, an 8233 TBE.  Check your lsmod output against this:

Module                  Size  Used by
snd_seq_oss            32896  0
snd_seq_midi_event      7744  1 snd_seq_oss
snd_seq                51408  4 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event
snd_pcm_oss            50792  0
snd_mixer_oss          18624  1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_via82xx            25860  2
snd_ac97_codec         65860  1 snd_via82xx
snd_pcm                92644  3 snd_pcm_oss,snd_via82xx
snd_timer              24964  2 snd_seq,snd_pcm
snd_page_alloc         11400  2 snd_via82xx,snd_pcm
snd_mpu401_uart         7488  1 snd_via82xx
snd_rawmidi            24448  1 snd_mpu401_uart
snd_seq_device          8072  3 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_rawmidi
snd                    54500  14 
snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device

All this on a 2.6.8-rc1-mm1 kernel.

xmms runs fine, tvtime runs fine, I can play a cd or a realaudio 
stream from the net, and the sound is pretty decent.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
There are 4 boxes to be used in defense of liberty. 
Soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
Please use in that order, starting now.  -Ed Howdershelt, Author
Additions to this message made by Gene Heskett are Copyright 2004, 
Maurice E. Heskett, all rights reserved.

Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Timothy Miller]

>From: Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>
>To: Timothy Miller <miller@techsource.com>
>CC: Timothy Miller <theosib@hotmail.com>,linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>Subject: Re: HELP:  Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx
>Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:09:29 +0200
>
>At Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:08:47 -0400,
>Timothy Miller wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for responding!
> >
> >
> > Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > At Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:26:54 -0400,
> > > Timothy Miller wrote:
> > >
> > >>I must once again reiterate my begging for help on this topic.  I've
> > >>gotten lots of help on the gentoo forum, but none of it's fixed my
> > >>problems, and I've only gotten one response on LKML.
> > >>
> > >>*BEG* *BEG* *BEG*
> > >>
> > >>Please, won't someone take pity on me?  :)  Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > > via82xx doesn't support MPU401 by itslef although via686 does.
> >
> > I'm not sure if I have via686 or not.  Various tools like lspci don't
> > seem to reveal much.
>
>Hmm, lspci must show the string like 'VIA86C686A' or 'VIA8235' ('VIA'
>can be 'VT').

Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 
Audio Controller (rev 50)

Is this meaningful?

Here's the whole thing:
0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8377 [KT400/KT600 AGP] 
Host Bridge
0000:00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 PCI Bridge
0000:00:0b.0 RAID bus controller: 3ware Inc 3ware 7000-series ATA-RAID (rev 
01)
0000:00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro 100] 
(rev 0c)
0000:00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 80)
0000:00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 80)
0000:00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 80)
0000:00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 82)
0000:00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 ISA Bridge
0000:00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
0000:00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
0000:00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II] 
(rev 74)
0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV250 If 
[Radeon 9000] (rev 01)
0000:01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV250 [Radeon 
9000] (Secondary) (rev 01)


>
> > That's one of the problems I keep running into with Linux.  There aren't
> > good tools for finding out what you have, and even when you do find out
> > what you have, it's hard to figure out which modules you need, because
> > the module names don't correspond well with the chipset name.
>
>You can use alsaconf script.  It will detect the right module.

I ran that just now... it ripped out the dxs_support option, it didn't seem 
to do anything with regard to modules, and the sound system is going 
completely nuts.

>
> > Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a good way to relate module names
> > with menuconfig entries.  When someone says to use xyz module, I can't
> > figure out which menuconfig option to select, so I have to compile ALL
> > of them as modules, and when someone tells me to use a given menu
> > option, I can't figure out which module corresponds to it.
>
>That's true.  The sure way would be to retrieve the pci id table from
>the source code...
>
> > > You can try snd-mpu401 module instead.
> >
> > Well, I have a module snd-mpu401, but when I modprobe it, I get an error
> > about a non-existant device.
>
>Then you might need to give the correct port number and the irq
>number as module parameters.  Perhaps you can get them from BIOS.
>

I'll have to look, but I'm not sure the BIOS says anything about it.  
Shouldn't it be "plug and play" anyhow?  I thought the days of manually 
configuring IRQ's were gone...

>
> >  > When ACPI is enabled, the
> > > configuration will be done automatically.
> > > The midi device can be available as the second card.
> >
> > Ah, well, I had nightmares trying to use ACPI.  I use just APM for
> > things like power-off (power-off works with APM, but not with ACPI).
> > Maybe some of the experts can help me to figure out how to get it all to
> > work.
> >
> > I'm about ready to give up on ALSA and go back to OSS.  Maybe someone
> > can help me to figure out how to get MIDI sequencing to work with OSS
> > instead.  OSS would at least do audio right without noise and popping
> > sounds, etc.
>
>I guess you see a kernel message when you load snd-via8xx driver
>regarding dxs_support option (suppose that your chip is VIA823x)?
>
>In worst case, you can eliminate the  noises with dxs_support=2
>option.

Everyone else says to use 3, but since that doesn't work, I guess I'll try 
2.  :)

>
>
> > I apologize for the impatient nature of this post... I've been
> > struggling for weeks to get audio working right with ALSA, but every
> > piece of advise I get seems only to make things worse.
> >
> >  From what I read on various web sites, ALSA for via82xx is so buggy
> > that it's really not worth using yet.
>
>Sorry, no, the chipset on many mobos is so buggy :)
>That's why we need so many workarounds.
>
>OSS driver has no problem regarding clicking noises because it doesn't
>support the DXS channels, the multiple playback.  ALSA supports it as
>default.  dxs_support=2 options disables it.
>See ALSA-Configuration.txt for details.
>
>Anyway, OSS VIA driver also doesn't support MIDI for VIA823x.
>It's for VIA686 only, as well as on ALSA driver.

Hmm... maybe I don't have MIDI hardware then.  Time to look into timidity.

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Re: HELP: Cannot get ALSA working on via82xx

[Takashi Iwai]

At Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:35:07 -0400,
Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if I have via686 or not.  Various tools like lspci don't
> > > seem to reveal much.
> >
> >Hmm, lspci must show the string like 'VIA86C686A' or 'VIA8235' ('VIA'
> >can be 'VT').
> 
> Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 
> Audio Controller (rev 50)
> 
> Is this meaningful?

Yes, it's VIA8235.


> > > That's one of the problems I keep running into with Linux.  There aren't
> > > good tools for finding out what you have, and even when you do find out
> > > what you have, it's hard to figure out which modules you need, because
> > > the module names don't correspond well with the chipset name.
> >
> >You can use alsaconf script.  It will detect the right module.
> 
> I ran that just now... it ripped out the dxs_support option, it didn't seem 
> to do anything with regard to modules, and the sound system is going 
> completely nuts.

Then your device needs a workaround with dxs_support.
(Or possibly an ACPI issue?)

> > > Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a good way to relate module names
> > > with menuconfig entries.  When someone says to use xyz module, I can't
> > > figure out which menuconfig option to select, so I have to compile ALL
> > > of them as modules, and when someone tells me to use a given menu
> > > option, I can't figure out which module corresponds to it.
> >
> >That's true.  The sure way would be to retrieve the pci id table from
> >the source code...
> >
> > > > You can try snd-mpu401 module instead.
> > >
> > > Well, I have a module snd-mpu401, but when I modprobe it, I get an error
> > > about a non-existant device.
> >
> >Then you might need to give the correct port number and the irq
> >number as module parameters.  Perhaps you can get them from BIOS.
> >
> 
> I'll have to look, but I'm not sure the BIOS says anything about it.  
> Shouldn't it be "plug and play" anyhow?  I thought the days of manually 
> configuring IRQ's were gone...

... only if you set up ACPI :)


> > >  > When ACPI is enabled, the
> > > > configuration will be done automatically.
> > > > The midi device can be available as the second card.
> > >
> > > Ah, well, I had nightmares trying to use ACPI.  I use just APM for
> > > things like power-off (power-off works with APM, but not with ACPI).
> > > Maybe some of the experts can help me to figure out how to get it all to
> > > work.
> > >
> > > I'm about ready to give up on ALSA and go back to OSS.  Maybe someone
> > > can help me to figure out how to get MIDI sequencing to work with OSS
> > > instead.  OSS would at least do audio right without noise and popping
> > > sounds, etc.
> >
> >I guess you see a kernel message when you load snd-via8xx driver
> >regarding dxs_support option (suppose that your chip is VIA823x)?
> >
> >In worst case, you can eliminate the  noises with dxs_support=2
> >option.
> 
> Everyone else says to use 3, but since that doesn't work, I guess I'll try 
> 2.  :)

3 is the default behavior.  Try either 1 or 4 at first.
(See ALSA-Configuration.txt.)


> >Anyway, OSS VIA driver also doesn't support MIDI for VIA823x.
> >It's for VIA686 only, as well as on ALSA driver.
> 
> Hmm... maybe I don't have MIDI hardware then.  Time to look into timidity.

If you thought of a MIDI playback (like timidity does), this board has
anyway no such function on hardware.  A softsynth is the only choice.


Takashi