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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Marco Elver <elver@google.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	 Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>, Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	 "David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Luc Van Oostenryck <luc.vanoostenryck@gmail.com>,
	 "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Alexander Potapenko <glider@google.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	 Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>,
	Bill Wendling <morbo@google.com>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	 Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@google.com>,
	 Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	 Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	Ian Rogers <irogers@google.com>,  Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Joel Fernandes <joelagnelf@nvidia.com>,
	 Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
	 Justin Stitt <justinstitt@google.com>,
	Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	 Kentaro Takeda <takedakn@nttdata.co.jp>,
	Lukas Bulwahn <lukas.bulwahn@gmail.com>,
	 Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
	 Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@kernel.org>,
	Nathan Chancellor <nathan@kernel.org>,
	 Neeraj Upadhyay <neeraj.upadhyay@kernel.org>,
	 Nick Desaulniers <nick.desaulniers+lkml@gmail.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	 Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	 Thomas Graf <tgraf@suug.ch>, Uladzislau Rezki <urezki@gmail.com>,
	Waiman Long <longman@redhat.com>,
	 kasan-dev@googlegroups.com, linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org,
	 linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kbuild@vger.kernel.org,
	 linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	 linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-sparse@vger.kernel.org,  llvm@lists.linux.dev,
	rcu@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/35] Compiler-Based Capability- and Locking-Analysis
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2025 14:47:41 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wgQO7c0zc8_VwaVSzG3fEVFFcjWzVBKM4jYjv8UiD2dkg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aMx4-B_WAtX2aiKx@elver.google.com>

On Thu, 18 Sept 2025 at 14:26, Marco Elver <elver@google.com> wrote:
>
> Fair points. "Context Analysis" makes sense, but it makes the thing
> (e.g. lock) used to establish that context a little awkward to refer to
> -- see half-baked attempt at reworking the documentation below.

Yeah, I agree that some of that reads more than a bit oddly.

I wonder if we could talk about "context analysis", but then when
discussing what is *held* for a particular context, call that a
"context token" or something like that?

But I don't mind your "Context guard" notion either. I'm not loving
it, but it's not offensive to me either.

Then the language would be feel fairly straightforward,

Eg:

> +Context analysis is a way to specify permissibility of operations to depend on
> +contexts being held (or not held).

That "contexts being held" sounds odd, but talking about "context
markers", or "context tokens" would seem natural.

An alternative would be to not talk about markers / tokens / guards at
all, but simply about a context being *active*.

IOW, instead of wording it like this:

> +The set of contexts that are actually held by a given thread at a given point
> +in program execution is a run-time concept.

that talks about "being held", you could just state it in the sense of
the "set of contexts being active", and that immediately reads fairly
naturally, doesn't it?

Because a context is a *state* you are in, it's not something you hold on to.

The tokens - or whatever - would be only some internal implementation
detail of how the compiler keeps track of which state is active, not
the conceptual idea itself.

So you name states, and you have functions to mark those context
states as being entered or exited, but you don't really even have to
talk about "holding" anything.

No?

               Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2025-09-18 21:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-09-18 13:59 [PATCH v3 00/35] Compiler-Based Capability- and Locking-Analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 01/35] compiler_types: Move lock checking attributes to compiler-capability-analysis.h Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 02/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Add infrastructure for Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 15:58   ` Ian Rogers
2025-09-18 16:03     ` Bart Van Assche
2025-09-18 16:14       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 03/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Add test stub Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 04/35] Documentation: Add documentation for Compiler-Based Capability Analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 05/35] checkpatch: Warn about capability_unsafe() without comment Marco Elver
2025-09-18 20:36   ` Joe Perches
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 06/35] cleanup: Basic compatibility with capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 07/35] lockdep: Annotate lockdep assertions for " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 08/35] locking/rwlock, spinlock: Support Clang's " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 09/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Change __cond_acquires to take return value Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 10/35] locking/mutex: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 11/35] locking/seqlock: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 12/35] bit_spinlock: Include missing <asm/processor.h> Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 13/35] bit_spinlock: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 14/35] rcu: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 15/35] srcu: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 16/35] kref: Add capability-analysis annotations Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 17/35] locking/rwsem: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 18/35] locking/local_lock: Include missing headers Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 19/35] locking/local_lock: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 20/35] locking/ww_mutex: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 21/35] debugfs: Make debugfs_cancellation a capability struct Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 22/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Remove Sparse support Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 23/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Remove __cond_lock() function-like helper Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 24/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Introduce header suppressions Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 25/35] compiler: Let data_race() imply disabled capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 26/35] MAINTAINERS: Add entry for Capability Analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 27/35] kfence: Enable capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 28/35] kcov: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 29/35] kcsan: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 30/35] stackdepot: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 31/35] rhashtable: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 32/35] printk: Move locking annotation to printk.c Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 33/35] security/tomoyo: Enable capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 34/35] crypto: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 35/35] sched: Enable capability analysis for core.c and fair.c Marco Elver
2025-09-18 14:15 ` [PATCH v3 00/35] Compiler-Based Capability- and Locking-Analysis Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-18 14:30   ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 14:38     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-18 17:45   ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-09-18 19:40     ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-09-19 14:08     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-19 14:09       ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-22  9:33         ` Marco Elver
2025-09-22 17:11           ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-23 19:49           ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-09-19 17:20       ` Bart Van Assche
2025-09-22 17:12         ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-20 10:23       ` Marco Elver
2025-09-20 12:44         ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 15:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-09-18 21:26   ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 21:47     ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2025-09-19  9:10       ` Marco Elver
2025-11-13 14:30         ` Marco Elver
2025-11-14  4:38           ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-11-14 13:22             ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 16:21 ` Ian Rogers
2025-09-18 19:41 ` [syzbot ci] " syzbot ci
2025-09-19  7:05   ` Marco Elver

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