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From: Matt Mackall <mpm@selenic.com>
To: Mark Lord <lkml@rtr.ca>
Cc: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	jheffner@psc.edu, torvalds@osdl.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: 2.6.17: networking bug??
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:22:55 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060613232255.GA8325@waste.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <448F32E1.8080002@rtr.ca>

On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 05:49:21PM -0400, Mark Lord wrote:
> 
> 
> David Miller wrote:
> >..
> >First, you are getting window scaling by default with the older
> >kernel too.  It's just a smaller window scale, using a shift
> >value of say 1 or 2.
> >
> >What these broken middle boxes do is ignore the window scale
> >entirely.
> >
> >So they don't apply a window scale to the advertised windows in each
> >packet.  Therefore, they think a smaller amount of window space is
> >being advertised than really is.  So they will silently drop packets
> >they think is outside of this bogus window they've calculated.
> >
> >Now, when the window scale is smaller, the connection can still limp
> >along, albeit slowly, making forward progress even in the face of such
> >broken devices because half or a quarter of the window is still
> >available.  It will retransmit a lot, and the congestion window won't
> >grow at all.
> >
> >When the window scale is larger, this middle box bug makes it such
> >that not even one packet can fit into the miscalculated window and
> >things wedge.  The box thinks that your window is "94" instead of
> >"94 << WINDOW_SCALE".
> ..
> 
> Unilaterally following the standard is all well and good
> for those who know how to get around it when a site becomes
> inaccessible, but not for Joe User.

We had very similar issues with ECN. But unlike ECN, window scaling is
not something we can just shrug our shoulders and say "oh well" about.
We will have to deal with it eventually. It might as well be sooner.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-06-13 23:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 24+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <448EC6F3.3060002@rtr.ca>
     [not found] ` <448ECB09.3010308@rtr.ca>
2006-06-13 15:00   ` 2.6.17: networking bug?? Mark Lord
2006-06-13 15:28     ` Mark Lord
2006-06-13 16:58       ` Mark Lord
2006-06-13 17:22         ` Mark Lord
2006-06-13 17:39           ` John Heffner
2006-06-13 17:50             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-13 18:26               ` Mark Lord
2006-06-13 19:08                 ` Mark Lord
2006-06-13 21:26                   ` David Miller
2006-06-13 21:49                     ` Mark Lord
2006-06-13 22:12                       ` Rick Jones
2006-06-13 22:23                       ` David Miller
2006-06-13 22:40                         ` Rick Jones
2006-06-13 23:01                           ` David Miller
2006-06-14  1:25                           ` John Heffner
2006-06-13 23:22                       ` Matt Mackall [this message]
2006-06-19  7:07                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-06-14  5:18                     ` Andi Kleen
2006-06-14  8:09                   ` Daniel Drake
2006-06-13 18:28               ` John Heffner
2006-06-13 20:45                 ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-13 22:09                 ` Chase Venters
2006-06-13 22:23                   ` David Miller
2006-07-02 17:39             ` Jan Knutar

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