From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Bill Fink <billfink@mindspring.com>
Cc: "Alejandro Riveira Fernández" <ariveira@gmail.com>,
"Theodore Tso" <tytso@MIT.EDU>, "Glen Turner" <gdt@gdt.id.au>,
"Chris Peterson" <cpeterso@cpeterso.com>,
"Alan Cox" <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
"Lennart Sorensen" <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,
"Jeff Garzik" <jeff@garzik.org>,
"Kok, Auke" <auke-jan.h.kok@intel.com>,
"Rick Jones" <rick.jones2@hp.com>,
"Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>,
netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:50:52 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080530195051.GA4980@ucw.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080526111458.fff6c311.billfink@mindspring.com>
Hi!
> > Just a shot in the dark... would hw sensors (raw data) chips be a good source
> > of entropy for /dev/random ??
>
> For systems with high resolution timers, even if an attacker has total
> knowledge/control of the network, it doesn't seem realistically possible
> for them to determine the low order bits of the nanosecond timer of
> disk and network I/O system calls, if those were used as a source of
> entropy. I think this is a case of the (unrealistic) best being an
> enemy of the common (and realistic) good.
>
> Another idea that occured to me: How about using the low order bits
> of the instruction memory address being executed that was interrupted
> by the HZ timer interrupt. This also doesn't seem to be something
> that an external attacker could realistically determine. And a
> combination of these approaches would be that much stronger, combined
> of course with any other available entropy sources.
Well, I'd fear that hlt instruction in idle loop would be the one
interrupted most. But low bits of tsc at timer interrupt would be fine
entropy source.
..actually, bogomips varies a bit between boots, maybe we should hash
it into the pool?
Maybe we could even redo bogomips calculation at runtime and use low
bits as random numbers? :-).
Pavel
--
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-05-30 19:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 93+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-05-15 7:11 [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Chris Peterson
2008-05-15 13:21 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-15 16:07 ` Brandeburg, Jesse
2008-05-15 16:39 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-15 18:14 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:47 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 19:10 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:50 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 19:11 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 19:55 ` [PATCH] " Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 0:27 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 9:56 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 10:19 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 12:12 ` Herbert Xu
2008-05-16 16:25 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-17 1:01 ` Herbert Xu
2008-05-17 10:59 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-17 19:54 ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-17 20:05 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-18 10:13 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-18 11:26 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-18 12:57 ` Joe Korty
2008-05-18 17:53 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-25 15:26 ` Glen Turner
2008-05-19 12:29 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-18 10:08 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-22 9:28 ` Helge Hafting
2008-05-16 13:20 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-16 16:20 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 19:47 ` David Miller
2008-05-16 23:28 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 18:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:17 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 18:31 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:47 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 19:21 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 20:01 ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-15 20:16 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 20:39 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 21:47 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 21:58 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 22:29 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 22:44 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 23:02 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 23:36 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 23:46 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 23:33 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 23:58 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-16 13:21 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 13:40 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 13:59 ` Will Newton
2008-05-16 14:15 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 14:27 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 15:10 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 17:36 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 18:11 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 18:40 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-16 18:41 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 18:42 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 20:04 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 20:39 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 20:46 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 20:34 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-25 15:02 ` Glen Turner
2008-05-25 19:33 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-17 4:55 ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-25 15:09 ` Glen Turner
2008-05-25 23:27 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-26 13:43 ` Alejandro Riveira Fernández
2008-05-26 15:14 ` Bill Fink
2008-05-26 21:07 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-05-26 21:52 ` Bill Fink
2008-05-26 22:11 ` Ben Hutchings
2008-05-27 16:44 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-30 19:50 ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2008-05-25 14:55 ` Glen Turner
[not found] ` <482C8550 <20080516161029.44ded734@core>
2008-05-16 20:08 ` Gilles Espinasse
2008-05-17 22:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-18 6:41 ` [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses ofIRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Gilles Espinasse
2008-05-18 9:54 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-18 12:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-18 12:24 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-18 14:43 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-15 21:55 ` [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Adrian Bunk
2008-05-15 22:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 22:27 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 22:13 ` Jesper Juhl
2008-05-15 22:34 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 22:57 ` Jesper Juhl
2008-05-18 0:36 ` Matt Mackall
2008-05-15 22:42 ` Jeff Garzik
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-04-10 5:29 Chris Peterson
2010-04-15 6:42 ` David Miller
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