From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>
Cc: Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <bzolnier@gmail.com>,
Gregory Haskins <gregory.haskins@gmail.com>,
Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
kvm@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
torvalds@linux-foundation.org,
"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
netdev@vger.kernel.org,
"alacrityvm-devel@lists.sourceforge.net"
<alacrityvm-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:51:50 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20091223185150.GA9587@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20091223101340.GC20539@basil.fritz.box>
* Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> wrote:
> > - Are a pure software concept and any compatibility mismatch is
> > self-inflicted. The patches are in fact breaking the ABI to KVM
>
> In practice, especially considering older kernel releases, VMs behave like
> hardware, with all its quirks, compatibility requirements, sometimes not
> fully understood, etc.
I stopped reading your reply here. That's not actually fully true of KVM, at
all.
Virtualization isnt voodoo magic with some hidden souce in some magic hardware
component that no-one can understand fully. This isnt some mystic hardware
vendor coming up with some code and going away in the next quarter, with
barely anything documented and thousands of users left with hardware
components which we need to support under Linux somehow.
This is Linux virtualization, where _both_ the host and the guest source code
is fully known, and bugs (if any) can be found with a high degree of
determinism. This is Linux where the players dont just vanish overnight, and
are expected to do a proper job.
Yes, there's (obviously) compatibility requirements and artifacts and past
mistakes (as with any software interface), but you need to admit it to
yourself that your "virtualization is sloppy just like hardware" claim is just
a cheap excuse to not do a proper job of interface engineering.
Thanks,
Ingo
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-12-23 18:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-12-07 18:53 [GIT PULL] AlacrityVM guest drivers for 2.6.33 Gregory Haskins
2009-12-18 21:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-21 15:34 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-21 15:43 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-21 16:04 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-21 16:37 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-21 16:40 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-21 16:56 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-21 17:05 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-21 17:24 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-21 16:46 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-21 17:20 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-21 17:44 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 0:12 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-22 7:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-22 11:49 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-22 15:31 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-22 16:01 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2009-12-22 16:21 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 6:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23 10:13 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-23 10:22 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-23 12:14 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-23 12:48 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-23 17:00 ` Chris Wright
2009-12-23 17:20 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-23 15:03 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 17:52 ` [Alacrityvm-devel] " Peter W. Morreale
2009-12-23 18:17 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 18:22 ` Chris Wright
2009-12-23 18:15 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 20:20 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-23 21:21 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-27 9:15 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-27 13:18 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-27 13:27 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-27 13:39 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-27 13:49 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-28 1:01 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 18:51 ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2009-12-23 19:27 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-23 20:26 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-24 6:58 ` Gleb Natapov
2009-12-24 20:41 ` Roland Dreier
2009-12-23 13:07 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2009-12-23 13:31 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-23 14:08 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2009-12-23 14:28 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-23 14:57 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 18:31 ` Chris Wright
2009-12-23 16:44 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 17:10 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-23 17:17 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 17:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-12-23 23:27 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 17:33 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-23 20:36 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-23 21:01 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-24 9:36 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-27 9:33 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-27 13:34 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-27 13:49 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-27 14:29 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-24 9:31 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-27 9:29 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 16:21 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-22 16:27 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-22 17:33 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-22 17:35 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 21:14 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 0:02 ` Chris Wright
2009-12-23 15:12 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 15:17 ` Chris Wright
2009-12-22 17:05 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 20:41 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 7:22 ` Gleb Natapov
2009-12-22 7:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-22 17:36 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 18:53 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 18:56 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 19:15 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 19:25 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 19:32 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 19:37 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 19:38 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 19:41 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 19:43 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 19:47 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-22 19:40 ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-22 19:39 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-12-22 19:53 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 1:05 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-12-23 6:15 ` Kyle Moffett
2009-12-23 15:09 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 19:54 ` [Alacrityvm-devel] " Ira W. Snyder
2009-12-23 22:58 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 23:42 ` Ira W. Snyder
2009-12-24 17:09 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-25 0:38 ` Ira W. Snyder
2009-12-24 4:52 ` Kyle Moffett
2009-12-24 16:57 ` Anthony Liguori
2009-12-23 17:34 ` Gregory Haskins
2009-12-23 19:28 ` Ira W. Snyder
2009-12-23 19:50 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-24 10:01 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
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