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From: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>
To: John Fastabend <john.fastabend@gmail.com>
Cc: Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org>,
	Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, Thomas Graf <tgraf@suug.ch>,
	Linux Kernel Network Developers <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>
Subject: Re: bpf bounded loops. Was: [flamebait] xdp
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:20:16 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161203002015.GB58522@ast-mbp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5841CE97.3050302@gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 02, 2016 at 11:42:15AM -0800, John Fastabend wrote:
> >> As far as pattern search for DNS packets...
> >> it was requested by Cloudflare guys back in March:
> >> https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/issues/471
> >> and it is useful for several tracing use cases as well.
> >> Unfortunately no one had time to implement it yet.
> > 
> > The string operations you proposed on the other hand, which would count
> > as one eBPF instructions, would give a lot more flexibility and allow
> > more cycles to burn, but don't help parsing binary protocols like IPv6
> > extension headers.

these are two separate things. we need pattern search regardless
of bounded loops. bpf program shouldn't be doing any complicated
algorithms. The main reasons to have loops are:
- speed up execution (smaller I-cache footprint)
- avoid forcing compiler to unroll loops (easier for users)
- support loops where unroll is not possible (like example below)

> My rough thinking on this was the verifier had to start looking for loop
> invariants and to guarantee termination. Sounds scary in general but
> LLVM could put these in some normal form for us and the verifier could
> only accept decreasing loops, the invariants could be required to be
> integers, etc. By simplifying the loop enough the problem becomes
> tractable.

yep. I think what Hannes was proposing earlier is straighforward
to implement for a compiler guy. The following:
for (int i = 0; i < (var & 0xff); i++)
  sum += map->value[i];  /* map value_size >= 0xff */
is obviously bounded and dataflow analysis can easily prove
that all memory operations are valid.
Static analysis tools do way way more than this.

> I think this would be better than new instructions and/or multiple
> verifiers.

agree that it's better than new instructions that would have
required JIT changes. Though there are pros to new insns too :)

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-12-03  0:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-12-01  9:11 [flamebait] xdp, well meaning but pointless Florian Westphal
2016-12-01 13:42 ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-01 14:58 ` Thomas Graf
2016-12-01 15:52   ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-01 16:28     ` Thomas Graf
2016-12-01 20:44       ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-01 21:12         ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-01 21:27           ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-01 21:51             ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-02 10:24               ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer
2016-12-02 11:54                 ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-02 16:59                   ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-02 18:12                     ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-02 19:56                       ` Stephen Hemminger
2016-12-02 20:19                         ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-02 18:39             ` bpf bounded loops. Was: [flamebait] xdp Alexei Starovoitov
2016-12-02 19:25               ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-02 19:42                 ` John Fastabend
2016-12-02 19:50                   ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-03  0:20                   ` Alexei Starovoitov [this message]
2016-12-03  9:11                     ` Sargun Dhillon
2016-12-02 19:42                 ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-02 23:34                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2016-12-04 16:05                     ` [flamebait] xdp Was: " Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-06  3:05                       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2016-12-06  5:08                         ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-06  6:04                           ` Alexei Starovoitov
2016-12-05 16:40                 ` Edward Cree
2016-12-05 16:50                   ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-05 16:54                     ` Edward Cree
2016-12-06 11:35                       ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-01 16:06   ` [flamebait] xdp, well meaning but pointless Florian Westphal
2016-12-01 16:19   ` David Miller
2016-12-01 16:51     ` Florian Westphal
2016-12-01 17:20     ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
     [not found] ` <CALx6S35R_ZStV=DbD-7Gf_y5xXqQq113_6m5p-p0GQfv46v0Ow@mail.gmail.com>
2016-12-01 18:02   ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-02 17:22 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer
2016-12-03 16:19   ` Willem de Bruijn
2016-12-03 19:48     ` John Fastabend
2016-12-05 11:04       ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer

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