From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ganesha.gnumonks.org ([213.95.27.120]:35594 "EHLO ganesha.gnumonks.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753272AbeBSRVO (ORCPT ); Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:21:14 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:20:40 +0100 From: Harald Welte To: David Miller Cc: daniel@iogearbox.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/4] net: add bpfilter Message-ID: <20180219172040.GJ5490@nataraja> References: <20180219125218.GD5490@nataraja> <20180219.094451.2250276349153125981.davem@davemloft.net> <20180219152321.GG5490@nataraja> <20180219.103651.309290718144247274.davem@davemloft.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180219.103651.309290718144247274.davem@davemloft.net> Sender: netdev-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: Hi David, On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:36:51AM -0500, David Miller wrote: > nftables has been proported as "better" for years, yet large > institutions did not migrate to it. In fact, they explicitly > disabled NFTABLES in their kernel config. It's like with any migration. People were using ipchains for a long time even after iptables existed. Many people simply don't care about packet filter performance. It's only a small fraction of their entire CPU workload, so probably not worth optimzing. For dedicated firewall devices, that's of course a different story. How long did it take for the getrandom() system call to be actually used by applications [even glibc!]? Or many other things that get introduced in the kernel? I can just as well ask how many millions of users / devices are already using eBPF or XDP? How many major Linux distributions are enabling and/or supporting this yet? I'm not criticizing, I'm just attempting to illustrate that technologies always take time to establish themselves - and of course those people with the biggest benefit (and knowing about it) will be the early adopters, while many others have no motivation to migrate. > In my opinion, any resistence to integration with eBPF and XDP will > lead to even less adoption of netfilter as a technology. 1) I may not have made my point clear, sorry. I have not argued against any integration with eBPF, I have just made some specific arguments against specific aspects of the current RFC. 2) You have indicated repeatedly that there are millions and millions of netfilter/iptables users out there. So I fail to see the "even less adoption" part. "Even less" than those millions and millions? SCNR. Regards, Harald -- - Harald Welte http://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)