From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.1 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B828EC43464 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 08:58:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DF5421D43 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 08:58:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=default; t=1600505889; bh=++lE0cUaP7TIk6cdN49a/tPWXNii3KbrsDBs/q2JJZg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:List-ID:From; b=oHhcZavaoECXYQC3UKAaulcHxtrHu67511JVaoK+mKTNKDQRSi9gq0wceFkIID2IN g9W5kMCgGryVYnwH04AhL7Ra19ZlV9Ls1+FkToYbVWjVKRRvRLzuL2kT2qM4F/Yw2o tIQIVN43b01V3jjWNu29q9cewnmzQX4/M6nWgLLE= Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726269AbgISI6G (ORCPT ); Sat, 19 Sep 2020 04:58:06 -0400 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:55362 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726041AbgISI6G (ORCPT ); Sat, 19 Sep 2020 04:58:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [213.57.247.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C721B21582; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 08:58:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=default; t=1600505885; bh=++lE0cUaP7TIk6cdN49a/tPWXNii3KbrsDBs/q2JJZg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=mXxJKosptnNHyuGtJY0GL4zqZ1KT7fJdVyNFptKO1EG5xo23cYTwOO21KBNxzNYoP NxDJZh1QhTMEXbUovPfOg/+rOevuv/vRcVG6Hdky1+6HiW6QFA/2UIW8psc2O1+yPP S/AO0yFWhuIRJIXxBGFNIYLLUpuHUkUKGPVpeGT4= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:58:01 +0300 From: Leon Romanovsky To: Greg Kroah-Hartman Cc: Oded Gabbay , Gal Pressman , Jason Gunthorpe , Jakub Kicinski , "Linux-Kernel@Vger. Kernel. Org" , netdev@vger.kernel.org, SW_Drivers , "David S. Miller" , Andrew Lunn , Florian Fainelli , linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/14] Adding GAUDI NIC code to habanalabs driver Message-ID: <20200919085801.GA869610@unreal> References: <20200917171833.GJ8409@ziepe.ca> <0b21db8d-1061-6453-960b-8043951b3bad@amazon.com> <20200918115227.GR869610@unreal> <20200918120340.GT869610@unreal> <20200918121905.GU869610@unreal> <20200919064020.GC439518@kroah.com> <20200919082003.GW869610@unreal> <20200919083012.GA465680@kroah.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200919083012.GA465680@kroah.com> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 10:30:12AM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:20:03AM +0300, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 08:40:20AM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 03:19:05PM +0300, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > > > > > So we do have an open-source library called hl-thunk, which uses our > > > > > driver and indeed that was part of the requirement. > > > > > It is similar to libdrm. > > > > > Here is the link: > > > > > https://github.com/HabanaAI/hl-thunk > > > > > > > > Are you kidding? > > > > > > > > This is mirror of some internal repository that looks like dumpster > > > > with ChangeId, internal bug tracker numbers, not part of major OS > > > > distributions. > > > > > > > > It is not open-source library and shows very clear why you chose > > > > to upstream your driver through driver/misc/ tree. > > > > > > It is an open source library, as per the license and the code > > > availability. What more is expected here? > > > > So can I fork iproute2, add bunch of new custom netlink UAPIs and expect > > Dave to merge it after I throw it on github? > > Don't be silly, that's not the case here at all and you know that. It was far-fetched example. > > > > No distro has to pick it up, that's not a requirement for kernel code, > > > we have many kernel helper programs that are not in distros. Heck, udev > > > took a long time to get into distros, does that mean the kernel side of > > > that interface should never have been merged? > > > > > > I don't understand your complaint here, it's not our place to judge the > > > code quality of userspace libraries, otherwise we would never get any > > > real-work done :) > > > > My main complaint is that you can't imagine merging code into large > > subsystems (netdev, RDMA, DRM? e.t.c) without being civil open-source > > citizen. It means use of existing user-space libraries/tools and/or > > providing new ones that will be usable for everyone. > > Agreed. > > > In this case, we have some custom char device with library that is not > > usable for anyone else and this is why drivers/misc/ is right place. > > Also agreed. > > > While we are talking about real-work, it is our benefit to push companies > > to make investment into ecosystem and not letting them to find an excuse > > for not doing it. > > So why are you complaining about a stand-alone driver that does not have > any shared subsystems's userspace code to control that driver? I didn't, everything started when I explained to Gal why RDMA subsystem requires rdma-core counterpart for any UAPI code. https://lore.kernel.org/linux-rdma/CAFCwf12B4vCCwmfA7+VTUYUgJ9EHAtvg6F0bMYnsSCUBST+aWA@mail.gmail.com/T/#m17d52d61adadf54c12bfecf1af5db40f5d829ac3 And expressed my view on the quality of the library that was presented as open-source example. https://lore.kernel.org/linux-rdma/CAFCwf12B4vCCwmfA7+VTUYUgJ9EHAtvg6F0bMYnsSCUBST+aWA@mail.gmail.com/T/#m9059c5a9405ba932d9ffb731195a43b27443d265 > > Yes, when integrating into other subsystems (i.e. networking and rdma), > they should use those common subsystems interfaces, no one is arguing > that at all. > > totally lost, And here comes my request to do it right https://lore.kernel.org/linux-rdma/CAFCwf12B4vCCwmfA7+VTUYUgJ9EHAtvg6F0bMYnsSCUBST+aWA@mail.gmail.com/T/#ma1fa6fe63666f630674eb668f1c00e6a672db85b All that I asked from Oded is to do UAPI/libraries right, while all the responses can be summarized to one sentence - "it is too hard, we don't want to do it." Thanks > > greg k-h