From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BABC433FE for ; Sat, 21 May 2022 19:46:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1345425AbiEUTqK (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 May 2022 15:46:10 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:36602 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S238301AbiEUTqH (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 May 2022 15:46:07 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 646D315802 for ; Sat, 21 May 2022 12:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id 202so3390983pfu.0 for ; Sat, 21 May 2022 12:46:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networkplumber-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zX5ok7BJ7D+wfGwmQ8/pQkeL6pnnmgUlA3fKtsver3U=; b=WOzdn6iO4OrpBAgQhS+QhjwGJ1+p1jNil1znlCHh1oyStS/cCmofFee1gCmgKV00FQ SQX1GEC0F98jIatP1VV2t9F04XF9Q0nSe3EsuhfSA/AI2/IVqwm1KtF2pW0KDmnm3WGI VW9Ttok+oxGHkkzwgPg3/81BJB2YmSEiraKkE6xmPNa2oxxNHsxAi5cQ7kIgXnPBpF7q 9gCJIl7jVbqRkgdD490aNOQNlvhhyWa8SndtLn53/sXqiCK9+HfjkyaFmKmXrNJNhjtJ O8LxeCRMpP16/ABpUxMUbFQiEEYXpC/MmnkMykxcJMBZxd4HhkwPa/vneb+YOPLlLKqt I/tQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zX5ok7BJ7D+wfGwmQ8/pQkeL6pnnmgUlA3fKtsver3U=; b=Lmzpc9YgJfFhHTCnG3n1Qq/jSxFiY6hA6q6iOfP3girpmzKHGmOehUxE/RWKJAGe83 ZZPQcaNXDUfHJmAAIb8+Leu0yUDuRqCbIxoBMrBKFnnyg/uVPVcpUVhCVaH47b/hzHBa 7MTjABAD5U2/zN/0HyU68OUaaknCAgYDTNjkGVw8Ta3ljLD9QC57wvYHKbKYjtptgXGj jU50CwIFj/qNhQogSLX+jxuk3CRMoOAD9+0yVU/Ip9bh78UWKQX2Es8eSI9TCyra+wGy m132B+9fdnpN7nF7FawAQf6A0q1TziwwT9Um/ZYxfUJj08/DIw040nP6FV1YvftnJZVY SrSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530SpJRMltE7eQNSp/9TUbtaaZIMhDSFjOHzkr3R4m74Uu0lRE7/ yZxFfBKeIO7oM5pyz8o9rAcomXnjx5XV3w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxbcUpunxaw0PstfwrdemrAznw9JU57xGuOAyg7DM7aIFDIXAliI8Nxt6ZJIbS/N6XC+EMeow== X-Received: by 2002:a63:1e0c:0:b0:3f2:5b19:24d0 with SMTP id e12-20020a631e0c000000b003f25b1924d0mr13900376pge.562.1653162362867; Sat, 21 May 2022 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.local (204-195-112-199.wavecable.com. [204.195.112.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k11-20020a170902760b00b0015eaa9aee50sm1955491pll.202.2022.05.21.12.46.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 21 May 2022 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 12:45:59 -0700 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Kent Overstreet Cc: Andrew Lunn , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, mcgrof@kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu Subject: Re: RFC: Ioctl v2 Message-ID: <20220521124559.69414fec@hermes.local> In-Reply-To: <20220521164546.h7huckdwvguvmmyy@moria.home.lan> References: <20220520161652.rmhqlvwvfrvskg4w@moria.home.lan> <20220521164546.h7huckdwvguvmmyy@moria.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On Sat, 21 May 2022 12:45:46 -0400 Kent Overstreet wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 10:31:02PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote: > > > I want to circulate this and get some comments and feedback, and if > > > no one raises any serious objections - I'd love to get collaborators > > > to work on this with me. Flame away! > > > > Hi Kent > > > > I doubt you will get much interest from netdev. netdev already > > considers ioctl as legacy, and mostly uses netlink and a message > > passing structure, which is easy to extend in a backwards compatible > > manor. > > The more I look at netlink the more I wonder what on earth it's targeted at or > was trying to solve. It must exist for a reason, but I've written a few ioctls > myself and I can't fathom a situation where I'd actually want any of the stuff > netlink provides. Netlink was built for networking operations, you want to set something like a route with a large number of varying parameters in one transaction. And you don't want to have to invent a new system call every time a new option is added. Also, you want to monitor changes and see these events for a userspace control application such as a routing daemon.