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[204.195.120.218]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4-20020a620504000000b00537b1aa9191sm15415174pff.178.2022.09.08.09.39.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Sep 2022 09:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 09:39:31 -0700 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Florian Fainelli Cc: Vladimir Oltean , David Ahern , Andrew Lunn , "netdev@vger.kernel.org" , Vivien Didelot Subject: Re: [PATCH iproute2] ip link: add sub-command to view and change DSA master Message-ID: <20220908093931.7034067b@hermes.local> In-Reply-To: <857e2dd4-cbc6-613c-c8e1-b3ff5d13dc47@gmail.com> References: <20220904190025.813574-1-vladimir.oltean@nxp.com> <20220906082907.5c1f8398@hermes.local> <20220906164117.7eiirl4gm6bho2ko@skbuf> <20220906095517.4022bde6@hermes.local> <20220906191355.bnimmq4z36p5yivo@skbuf> <05593f07-42e8-c4bd-8608-cf50e8b103d6@gmail.com> <20220908125117.5hupge4r7nscxggs@skbuf> <403f6f3b-ba65-bdb2-4f02-f9520768b0f6@kernel.org> <20220908072519.5ceb22f8@hermes.local> <20220908161104.rcgl3k465ork5vwv@skbuf> <857e2dd4-cbc6-613c-c8e1-b3ff5d13dc47@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 09:35:03 -0700 Florian Fainelli wrote: > On 9/8/2022 9:11 AM, Vladimir Oltean wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 08, 2022 at 07:25:19AM -0700, Stephen Hemminger wrote: > >> On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 08:08:23 -0600 David Ahern wrote: > >>>> Proposing any alternative naming raises the question how far you want to > >>>> go with the alternative name. No user of DSA knows the "conduit interface" > >>>> or "management port" or whatnot by any other name except "DSA master". > >>>> What do we do about the user-visible Documentation/networking/dsa/configuration.rst, > >>>> which clearly and consistently uses the 'master' name everywhere? > >>>> Do we replace 'master' with something else and act as if it was never > >>>> named 'master' in the first place? Do we introduce IFLA_DSA_MGMT_PORT as > >>>> UAPI and explain in the documentation "oh yeah, that's how you change > >>>> the DSA master"? "Ahh ok, why didn't you just call it IFLA_DSA_MASTER > >>>> then?" "Well...." > >>>> > >>>> Also, what about the code in net/dsa/*.c and drivers/net/dsa/, do we > >>>> also change that to reflect the new terminology, or do we just have > >>>> documentation stating one thing and the code another? > >>>> > >>>> At this stage, I'm much more likely to circumvent all of this, and avoid > >>>> triggering anyone by making a writable IFLA_LINK be the mechanism through > >>>> which we change the DSA master. > >>> > >>> IMHO, 'master' should be an allowed option giving the precedence of > >>> existing code and existing terminology. An alternative keyword can be > >>> used for those that want to avoid use of 'master' in scripts. vrf is an > >>> example of this -- you can specify 'vrf ' as a keyword instead > >>> of 'master ' > >> > >> Agreed, just wanted to start discussion of alternative wording. > > > > So are we or are we not in the clear with IFLA_DSA_MASTER and > > "ip link set ... type dsa master ..."? What does being in the clear even > > mean technically, and where can I find more details about the policy > > which you just mentioned? Like is it optional or mandatory, was there > > any public debate surrounding the motivation for flagging some words, > > how is it enforced, are there official exceptions, etc? > > The "bonding" driver topic has some good context: > > https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2010.0/02186.html On another mail thread, discussed naming with the IEEE 802 committee. And they said master/slave is not used in either the current version of the bridging or bonding standards.