From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-alma10-1.taild15c8.ts.net [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C2051946DA; Tue, 16 Jun 2026 00:55:37 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1781571338; cv=none; b=u30qXpvS4JhBY/SmztECIYw+AMg7vo+TDbDUaA7UvAJv2Ok6OmGMmTrd2CFzHFTCICzXG/uluIbj85kXmUTFtG2ciW7YtNir6QmEjSlAmmHVw/cVUJjg8zaPCl2/mffPjxcmd5jV4om8YiikvKcGp8vJ4Fqzqk41X3sronh+KAs= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1781571338; c=relaxed/simple; bh=/BMQPdKy2mez2NWPXzQui/LvqSQYMnIqUUjhigjlpx0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=BsI4DiwjRzO+c+PQQB0TW/AEs7PYYVufgTcnOJs/Ulf86Y92SIByt/ePeaAJGWwwDJ5GLWS8eBKhvfQIZqQHVDWsNZdQmIaIGZGSViyNB5laHgDWurVDPGpLGBJY98mDPasiLZmVLLfhqsMUAApGZOcUu8hcyo8oBbK7zOr8hbg= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=TKZ5AFQI; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="TKZ5AFQI" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 78A1E1F000E9; Tue, 16 Jun 2026 00:55:36 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1781571337; bh=lskkInW4j+QflVmCtofwVhf2RQet1ZyLYb6x5LBakeI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=TKZ5AFQIoVK5NtSIBcKZ+XK4QNf3pRkYbRoMsoZ4iDboN3wkJk1jZTJ2kwEkojwK7 56Er+BG+jd3/RoIUW9OY1xeprE5dYvsQL1SQ6eAS5vtjFyMGB1ovOkPQOJgcbnDvwK IDBFmXEP3upDgEU88CBoP68UJPtrnWeWEKyUHx9kaowOkG/8QRvagZ4QGNTGXS8CWI ex8JjIgvxHy/JHluGsl+c2NhPsbxVYSOUSDFitNKbpJ1P2CzQrLjPgbQ0NTazsuIDa shXnbiP1zAA9/68Ma1G129w2dlqiLw6AAA79KKtVgfdkclrrkwgVm7yaUqvNB+RqXl 2r9jLauRxnyEQ== Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2026 17:55:35 -0700 From: Jakub Kicinski To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz Cc: davem@davemloft.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, edumazet@google.com, pabeni@redhat.com, andrew+netdev@lunn.ch, horms@kernel.org, geert@linux-m68k.org, chleroy@kernel.org, npiggin@gmail.com, mpe@ellerman.id.au, maddy@linux.ibm.com, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/2] appletalk: move the protocol out of tree Message-ID: <20260615175535.5bc56cfc@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20260615222935.947233-1-kuba@kernel.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 01:34:06 +0200 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On Mon, 2026-06-15 at 15:29 -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > > This tiny series moves appletalk out of tree, to: > > > > https://github.com/linux-netdev/mod-orphan > > > > Core maintainainers are unable to keep up with the rate of security > > bug reports and fixes. Nobody seems to care about appletalk enough > > to review the patches. > > Why would fixing these vulnerabilities be relevant? No one is going to > expose an Apple Talk server to an untrusted network, are they? The same > applies to hamradio and AX.25, they are all used by hobbyists in DMZ > networks, so no one really cares about vulnerabilities in these protocols. > > I find it sad that AI tools are basically used to shoot at the kernel > to kill off features as some people are apparently getting scared by > these AI reports and just nuke everything in a panic reaction as if it > wouldn't just be possible to disable these protocols at compile time > to reduce the attack surface. > > > As Eric pointed out Mac OS dropped AppleTalk over a decade ago. > > That's not the point though. No one is going to use AppleTalk to network > a Linux box to a modern macOS machine. The usefulness lies in hooking up > a Linux box to a vintage Mac or other retro computer. > > So far, one of the huge advantages of open source operating systems has > always been that even niche use cases were supported and people could make > use of old hardware by using open source operating systems over commercial > offerings such as Windows or macOS. > > With the advent of AI security reports, these niche use cases are more and > more being killed off with the argument that a vulnerability in the harmradio > code could pose a threat to a large SAP database running on a Linux enterprise > distribution. However, if your enterprise distribution is enabling kernel > features their customers aren't using and therefore enlarging the attack surface, > it's more a problem of said enterprise distribution and not of these old and > obscure network protocols. > > I am trying my best to save as many classic features in the kernel as possible > to enable retro computing but I am sometimes fearing that commercial interest > in the kernel is taking over too much making my efforts harder every day. We can complain about the AI slop til the cows comes home. I don't like it, you don't like it. What difference does it make? If y'all have real solutions please share. Complaining about "commercial interests" and "nuk[ing] everything in a panic reaction" is not helpful.