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Wed, 3 Sep 2025 19:59:42 +0000 Message-ID: <35fbf36c-a908-443d-b903-9a5410af7cf4@intel.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:59:41 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next V6 09/13] devlink: Add 'keep_link_up' generic devlink device param To: Saeed Mahameed CC: Jakub Kicinski , "David S. Miller" , Paolo Abeni , Eric Dumazet , "Saeed Mahameed" , , Tariq Toukan , Gal Pressman , Leon Romanovsky , Jiri Pirko , Simon Horman References: <20250709030456.1290841-1-saeed@kernel.org> <20250709030456.1290841-10-saeed@kernel.org> <20250709195801.60b3f4f2@kernel.org> <20250710152421.31901790@kernel.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Jacob Keller Autocrypt: addr=jacob.e.keller@intel.com; keydata= xjMEaFx9ShYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAE+TQsi9s60VNWijGeBIKU6hsXLwMt/JY9ni1wnsVd7nN J0phY29iIEtlbGxlciA8amFjb2IuZS5rZWxsZXJAaW50ZWwuY29tPsKTBBMWCgA7FiEEIEBU qdczkFYq7EMeapZdPm8PKOgFAmhcfUoCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AA CgkQapZdPm8PKOiZAAEA4UV0uM2PhFAw+tlK81gP+fgRqBVYlhmMyroXadv0lH4BAIf4jLxI UPEL4+zzp4ekaw8IyFz+mRMUBaS2l+cpoBUBzjgEaFx9ShIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQF386lYe MPZBiQHGXwjbBWS5OMBems5rgajcBMKc4W4aAwEIB8J4BBgWCgAgFiEEIEBUqdczkFYq7EMe apZdPm8PKOgFAmhcfUoCGwwACgkQapZdPm8PKOjbUQD+MsPBANqBUiNt+7w0dC73R6UcQzbg cFx4Yvms6cJjeD4BAKf193xbq7W3T7r9BdfTw6HRFYDiHXgkyoc/2Q4/T+8H In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; 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boundary="------------ymgpIV7vsp2WBiXdQDQvAEYP"; protected-headers="v1" From: Jacob Keller To: Saeed Mahameed Cc: Jakub Kicinski , "David S. Miller" , Paolo Abeni , Eric Dumazet , Saeed Mahameed , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Tariq Toukan , Gal Pressman , Leon Romanovsky , Jiri Pirko , Simon Horman Message-ID: <35fbf36c-a908-443d-b903-9a5410af7cf4@intel.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next V6 09/13] devlink: Add 'keep_link_up' generic devlink device param References: <20250709030456.1290841-1-saeed@kernel.org> <20250709030456.1290841-10-saeed@kernel.org> <20250709195801.60b3f4f2@kernel.org> <20250710152421.31901790@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: --------------ymgpIV7vsp2WBiXdQDQvAEYP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9/2/2025 11:45 PM, Saeed Mahameed wrote: > On 02 Sep 14:57, Jacob Keller wrote: >> Intel has also tried something similar sounding with the >> "link_down_on_close" in ethtool, which appears to be have made it in t= o >> ice and i40e.. (I thought I remembered these flags being rejected but = I >> guess not?) I guess the ethtool flag is a bit difference since its >> relating to driver behavior when you bring the port down >> administratively, vs something like this which affects firmware contro= l >> of the link regardless of its state to the kernel. >> >=20 > Interesting, it seems that i40/ice LINK_DOWN_ON_CLOSE and TOTAL_PORT_SH= UTDOWN_ENA > go hand in hand, tried to read the long comment in i40 but it is mostly= > about how these are implemented in both driver and FW/phy but not what = they > mean, what I am trying to understand is "LINK_DOWN_ON_CLOSE_ENA" is an > 'enable' bit, it is off by default and an opt-in, does that mean by def= ault=20 > i40e/ice don't actually bring the link down on driver/unload or ndo->cl= ose > ? >=20 I believe so. I can't recall the immediate behavior, and I know both parameters are currently frowned on and only exist due to legacy of merging them before this policy was widely enforced. I believe the default is to leave the link up, and the flag changes this. I remember vaguely some discussions we had about which approach was better, and we had customers who each had different opinions. I could be wrong though, and would need to verify this. >>>>> This is not different as BMC is sort of multi-host, and physical li= nk >>>>> control here is delegated to the firmware. >>>>> >>>>> Also do we really want netdev to expose API for permanent nic tunab= les ? >>>>> I thought this is why we invented devlink to offload raw NIC underl= ying >>>>> tunables. >>>> >>>> Are you going to add devlink params for link config? >>>> Its one of the things that's written into the NVMe, usually.. >>> >>> No, the purpose of this NVM series is to setup FW boot parameters and= not spec related >>> tunables. >>> >> >> This seems quite useful to me w.r.t to BMC access. I think its a stret= ch >> to say this implies the desire to add many other knobs. >=20 > No sure if you are with or against the devlink knob ? :-) I think a knob is a good idea, and I think it makes sense in devlink, given that this applies to not just netdevice. > But thanks for the i40e/ice pointers at least I know I am not alone on = this > boat.. >=20 The argument that adding this knob implies we need a much more complex link management scheme seems a little overkill to me. Unfortunately, I think the i40e/ice stuff is perhaps slightly orthogonal given that it applies mainly to the link behavior with software running. This knob appears to be more about firmware behavior irrespective of what if any software is running? --------------ymgpIV7vsp2WBiXdQDQvAEYP-- --------------GQq0LVT9IzD18OP7nX9u4n6t Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wnsEABYIACMWIQQgQFSp1zOQVirsQx5qll0+bw8o6AUCaLieLQUDAAAAAAAKCRBqll0+bw8o6JYM AQDWyWUaGXx9OPq2hrsgJ6AY0z7J87rYzVGIurCPrTn3eAEAg2s3HvNIIk3uUYPPZ3cANbExBvLR HDHUHg61u+v3LQw= =Ec4q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------GQq0LVT9IzD18OP7nX9u4n6t--