Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

[Aidas Kasparas]

Joy,

	Need to have forward policies (which are not specified in RFC 2401 or 
any other ipsec related RFC I've read) was like a thunder from the blue 
sky to us. There is no way in setkey how to insert forward policies at 
the moment. Which of the following directions to solve this problem we 
have not decided yet:
	1) push kernel developers to have rfc2401 semantics in kernel;
	1a) have pfkey kernel part transform rfc2401 semantics into kernel 
semantics;
	2) have libpfkey generate extra policies transparently to the user;
	3) have tools (setkey and racoon) generate extra policies transparently 
to the user;
	4) extend setkey's syntax to make explicit forward policy management 
possible and write docs for all the admins to change policies.

	Personally I would like to have (1). This would make setups simpler. I 
believe, people with embeded applications would like very much to have 
(1) too (as extra policies => extra memory use will drive them mad). 
Yet, I have little hope this will happen :-//.

	Second least worst thing IMHO would be a combination of (2) and (4). 
Libpfkey functions have to be rewritten to generate extra forward 
policies, and current functions should be renamed as to provide view to 
real situation. Setkey should have a swith which tells to operate in 
rfc2401 compliant fashion (generating forward policies) or kernel mode 
(adding/removing/showing policies, including forward, as they are).

	Oppinions anyone?

	Meanwhile, I would like to recomend to abstain from upgrading to 
anything above 2.6.9.

Joy Latten wrote:
> I understand there has been discussion and code change 
> for checks with tunnel mode and forwarding packets. 
> In 2.6.9 with latest patches all my decapsulated tunnel mode 
> packets instead of being forwarded onto receiving subnet
> or dropped.
> How do I specify manually with setkey (syntax?), to forward
> decapsulated packets onto receiving subnet?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Joy Latten

-- 
Aidas Kasparas
IT administrator
GM Consult Group, UAB

Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

[David S. Miller]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:05:39 +0300
Aidas Kasparas <a.kasparas@gmc.lt> wrote:

> 	4) extend setkey's syntax to make explicit forward policy management 
> possible and write docs for all the admins to change policies.

This is what we're advocating to happen.

There are reasons why people would want seperate INPUT, OUTPUT,
and FORWARD policies.  So we're not taking that capability out
of the kernel.  And by "auto-magically" making this happen
transparently you are taking the capability away, which is why
this idea won't fly either.

For the record, the freeswan tools handle all of this stuff
just fine.

Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

[Herbert Xu]

Aidas Kasparas <a.kasparas@gmc.lt> wrote:
> 
>        Meanwhile, I would like to recomend to abstain from upgrading to 
> anything above 2.6.9.

Doesn't sound like a good idea as that's a massive security hole.

Racoon with a pre-2.6.9 kernel will allow source addresses to come
through the IPsec tunnel even if the violate IPsec policies.
-- 
Visit Openswan at http://www.openswan.org/
Email: Herbert Xu ~{PmV>HI~} <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>
Home Page: http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/
PGP Key: http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/pubkey.txt

Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

[Aidas Kasparas]

Herbert Xu wrote:
> Aidas Kasparas <a.kasparas@gmc.lt> wrote:
> 
>>       Meanwhile, I would like to recomend to abstain from upgrading to 
>>anything above 2.6.9.
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like a good idea as that's a massive security hole.
> 
> Racoon with a pre-2.6.9 kernel will allow source addresses to come
> through the IPsec tunnel even if the violate IPsec policies.

Ok, my dear coleagues admins, decide for yourself. Facts are:

If you upgrade, your system will not work.

If you do not upgrade, and on host c.c.c.c you have policy
a.a.a.a b.b.b.b any -P in esp/.../

where b.b.b.b is address different from any interface address of host 
with address c.c.c.c and
1) some party h.h.h.h will be able to spoof packet to look from a.a.a.a 
  to b.b.b.b;
2) transport that packet to c.c.c.c
3) that packet will not be filtered out by rp_filter on c.c.c.c
then kernel will pass that packet through to b.b.b.b, even if that 
packet is not protected by esp.

It is possible to prevent that from happening by marking esp packets and 
later accepting for forwarding only marked packets from a.a.a.a to 
b.b.b.b using iptables. Yes, I have insisted in the past this is not 
necessary. I was wrong. I'm sorry. I did not knew about this kernel's 
feature.

[Have I missed any other case?]

Which way to choose for the short term -- decission is after you.


-- 
Aidas Kasparas
IT administrator
GM Consult Group, UAB

Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

[Michal Ludvig]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Aidas Kasparas wrote:

> 1) push kernel developers to have rfc2401 semantics in kernel;
> 1a) have pfkey kernel part transform rfc2401 semantics into kernel 
> semantics;
> 2) have libpfkey generate extra policies transparently to the user;
> 3) have tools (setkey and racoon) generate extra policies
> transparently to the user;
> 4) extend setkey's syntax to make explicit forward policy management
> possible and write docs for all the admins to change policies.

At least we must provide #4 - now it doesn't work at all, with explicit 
fwd policies things could be set up in most cases except for policy 
autogeneration in racoon. 

I hope to do the setkey part today.

Michal Ludvig
-- 
* A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in.
* Personal homepage - http://www.logix.cz/michal

Re: [Ipsec-tools-devel] ipv4/ipv6 forwarding check

[Michal Ludvig]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Aidas Kasparas wrote:

> 	4) extend setkey's syntax to make explicit forward policy management
> possible and write docs for all the admins to change policies.

I have uploaded a tarball of IPsec-tools 0.5-preview to sf.net. Among 
other changes, setkey is now able (hopefully :-) to handle fwd policies.

Please test and report any problems to the IPsec-tools list.

Download here:
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=74601&package_id=133565

Michal Ludvig
-- 
* A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in.
* Personal homepage - http://www.logix.cz/michal