Could you make vconfig less stupid?

Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Stephen Hemminger]

vconfig prints bogus message, then autoloads the vlan module.
It is still living in 2.4 time warp.

# vconfig add dummy0 1
WARNING:  Could not open /proc/net/vlan/config.  Maybe you need to load the 8021q module, or maybe you are not using PROCFS??
Added VLAN with VID == 1 to IF -:dummy0:-

Other nuisance:
# vconfig --version
Expecting argc to be 3-5, inclusive.  Was: 2
...

1) users expect version
2) users don't expect argc related crap messages

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> vconfig prints bogus message, then autoloads the vlan module.
> It is still living in 2.4 time warp.
> 
> # vconfig add dummy0 1
> WARNING:  Could not open /proc/net/vlan/config.  Maybe you need to load the 8021q module, or maybe you are not using PROCFS??
> Added VLAN with VID == 1 to IF -:dummy0:-
> 
> Other nuisance:
> # vconfig --version
> Expecting argc to be 3-5, inclusive.  Was: 2
> ...
> 
> 1) users expect version
> 2) users don't expect argc related crap messages

Actually I don't maintain vconfig and I don't think Ben does either.
Its deprecated and iproute is what people should use, all the new
features are not supported by vconfig.

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Ben Greear]

Patrick McHardy wrote:
> Stephen Hemminger wrote:
>> vconfig prints bogus message, then autoloads the vlan module.
>> It is still living in 2.4 time warp.
>>
>> # vconfig add dummy0 1
>> WARNING:  Could not open /proc/net/vlan/config.  Maybe you need to 
>> load the 8021q module, or maybe you are not using PROCFS??
>> Added VLAN with VID == 1 to IF -:dummy0:-
>>
>> Other nuisance:
>> # vconfig --version
>> Expecting argc to be 3-5, inclusive.  Was: 2
>> ...
>>
>> 1) users expect version
>> 2) users don't expect argc related crap messages
>
> Actually I don't maintain vconfig and I don't think Ben does either.
> Its deprecated and iproute is what people should use, all the new
> features are not supported by vconfig.
I can fix these things if anyone cares, but leaving it crufty might be a 
better
way to encourage folks to use 'ip'.

Ben

>
> -- 
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html


-- 
Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> 
Candela Technologies Inc  http://www.candelatech.com

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Ben Greear wrote:
> Patrick McHardy wrote:
>> Actually I don't maintain vconfig and I don't think Ben does either.
>> Its deprecated and iproute is what people should use, all the new
>> features are not supported by vconfig.
 >>
> I can fix these things if anyone cares, but leaving it crufty might be a 
> better way to encourage folks to use 'ip'.

I think it would make sense to add a note to the manpage
or something like that. Maybe also a runtime warning in
case its really (going to be) unmaintained.

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Denys Fedoryshchenko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1152 bytes --]

Probably to make people use iproute2, it is good to inform them, that iproute2 
can do that job. 

For example i didn't knew that ip can make vlan's and etc.
And even embedded help doesn't help almost.

Something like attached trivial patch, at least will give idea, what to do.

man page i can edit too, but i guess it is better someone with good english 
will do that.

On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Patrick McHardy wrote:
> Ben Greear wrote:
> > Patrick McHardy wrote:
> >> Actually I don't maintain vconfig and I don't think Ben does either.
> >> Its deprecated and iproute is what people should use, all the new
> >> features are not supported by vconfig.
> >
> > I can fix these things if anyone cares, but leaving it crufty might be a
> > better way to encourage folks to use 'ip'.
>
> I think it would make sense to add a note to the manpage
> or something like that. Maybe also a runtime warning in
> case its really (going to be) unmaintained.
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html



[-- Attachment #2: iproute_linkhelp_rfc.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 734 bytes --]

diff -Naur iproute2.backup/ip/iplink.c iproute2/ip/iplink.c
--- iproute2.backup/ip/iplink.c	2008-10-05 15:41:59.000000000 +0000
+++ iproute2/ip/iplink.c	2008-10-07 12:14:28.000000000 +0000
@@ -54,6 +54,10 @@
 	fprintf(stderr, "	                     mtu MTU }\n");
 	fprintf(stderr, "	                     netns PID }\n");
 	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link show [ DEVICE ]\n");
+	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link add link PARENTDEV type { vlan | veth } { ... | help }\n");
+	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link add link PARENTDEV NEWDEVICE type macvlan { ... | help }\n");
+	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link change link PARENTDEV type { vlan | veth } { ... | help}\n");
+	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link del dev DEVICE\n");
 	exit(-1);
 }
 

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
> Probably to make people use iproute2, it is good to inform them, that iproute2 
> can do that job. 
> 
> For example i didn't knew that ip can make vlan's and etc.
> And even embedded help doesn't help almost.
> 
> Something like attached trivial patch, at least will give idea, what to do.
> 
> man page i can edit too, but i guess it is better someone with good english 
> will do that.

Thats probably not me, but I'll try anyways :)

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Milan Kocian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1202 bytes --]

On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 03:20:56PM +0300, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
 
> 

> diff -Naur iproute2.backup/ip/iplink.c iproute2/ip/iplink.c
> --- iproute2.backup/ip/iplink.c	2008-10-05 15:41:59.000000000 +0000
> +++ iproute2/ip/iplink.c	2008-10-07 12:14:28.000000000 +0000
> @@ -54,6 +54,10 @@
>  	fprintf(stderr, "	                     mtu MTU }\n");
>  	fprintf(stderr, "	                     netns PID }\n");
>  	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link show [ DEVICE ]\n");
> +	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link add link PARENTDEV type { vlan | veth } { ... | help }\n");
> +	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link add link PARENTDEV NEWDEVICE type macvlan { ... | help }\n");
> +	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link change link PARENTDEV type { vlan | veth } { ... | help}\n");
> +	fprintf(stderr, "       ip link del dev DEVICE\n");
>  	exit(-1);
>  }
>  
hello,

btw. How can I see vlan id on device ?
After:
# ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
# ip a
I see:

64: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN 
    link/ether 00:16:d3:3e:4e:b9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff

No vlan id in interface name ?

# ip -V
ip utility, iproute2-ss080725

regards,

-- 
Milan Kocian

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Denys Fedoryshchenko]

On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Milan Kocian wrote:
> hello,
>
> btw. How can I see vlan id on device ?
> After:
> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
> # ip a
> I see:
>
> 64: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
>     link/ether 00:16:d3:3e:4e:b9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>
> No vlan id in interface name ?
>
> # ip -V
> ip utility, iproute2-ss080725
>
> regards,
Use flag -d
rich ip # ./ip -d l show dev vlan0
31: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
    link/ether 00:1e:8c:89:78:af brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    vlan id 100 <REORDER_HDR>

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
> On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Milan Kocian wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> btw. How can I see vlan id on device ?
>> After:
>> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
>> # ip a
>> I see:
>>
>> 64: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
>>     link/ether 00:16:d3:3e:4e:b9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>>
>> No vlan id in interface name ?
>>
>> # ip -V
>> ip utility, iproute2-ss080725
>>
>> regards,
> Use flag -d
> rich ip # ./ip -d l show dev vlan0
> 31: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
>     link/ether 00:1e:8c:89:78:af brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>     vlan id 100 <REORDER_HDR>

It would be better to have -d as a default, I was afraid of breaking
scripts of people sedding and awking around with the iproute output.

Stephen should make this call, I'm not sure what guarantees he wants
to provide. I just remembered one of my previous jobs where a large
number of scripts had to be changed because iproute started using
lower case letters in some spots, and I had to do it :)

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Martin Josefsson]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008, Patrick McHardy wrote:

>>> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100

> It would be better to have -d as a default, I was afraid of breaking
> scripts of people sedding and awking around with the iproute output.

It would also be good to have a help text describing 'ip l a' as
'ip l h' doesn't mention it at all in at least iproute2-ss080725 which 
seems to be the latest release.

Until there's an easy accessible help text I'll stick to vconfig :)
I know the iproute help texts aren't always that easy to read but at least 
they beat getting:

# ip l a
RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported

:)

/Martin

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Milan Kocian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1419 bytes --]

On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 02:56:03PM +0200, Patrick McHardy wrote:
> Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
>> On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Milan Kocian wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> btw. How can I see vlan id on device ?
>>> After:
>>> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
>>> # ip a
>>> I see:
>>>
>>> 64: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
>>>     link/ether 00:16:d3:3e:4e:b9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>>>
>>> No vlan id in interface name ?
>>>
>>> # ip -V
>>> ip utility, iproute2-ss080725
>>>
>>> regards,
>> Use flag -d
>> rich ip # ./ip -d l show dev vlan0
>> 31: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
>>     link/ether 00:1e:8c:89:78:af brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>>     vlan id 100 <REORDER_HDR>
>
> It would be better to have -d as a default, I was afraid of breaking
> scripts of people sedding and awking around with the iproute output.
>
> Stephen should make this call, I'm not sure what guarantees he wants
> to provide. I just remembered one of my previous jobs where a large
> number of scripts had to be changed because iproute started using
> lower case letters in some spots, and I had to do it :)

Thanks for quick answer. 
Yes, -d will be fine.
It is a pity that vlan id will not be in interface name. It was 
comfortable to have vlan id in interface name. 
Any reason for changing naming schema ?

regards,

-- 
Milan Kocian

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Milan Kocian wrote:
> It is a pity that vlan id will not be in interface name. It was 
> comfortable to have vlan id in interface name. 
> Any reason for changing naming schema ?

What has changed is that the kernel doesn't support the
naming policies for the netlink interface. I don't see any
need for that, you can simply do:

ip add link eth0 name eth0.1000 type vlan id 1000

or choose whatever different scheme you like.

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Martin Josefsson wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008, Patrick McHardy wrote:
> 
>>>> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
> 
>> It would be better to have -d as a default, I was afraid of breaking
>> scripts of people sedding and awking around with the iproute output.
> 
> It would also be good to have a help text describing 'ip l a' as
> 'ip l h' doesn't mention it at all in at least iproute2-ss080725 which 
> seems to be the latest release.
> 
> Until there's an easy accessible help text I'll stick to vconfig :)
> I know the iproute help texts aren't always that easy to read but at 
> least they beat getting:
> 
> # ip l a
> RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported

Thats probably correct, the rtnl_link interface has only been present
for a few versions in the kernel.

But I agree and I'll send a patch with improved help texts and a
manpage when I find some spare time.

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Patrick McHardy]

Martin Josefsson wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008, Patrick McHardy wrote:
> 
>>>> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
> 
>> It would be better to have -d as a default, I was afraid of breaking
>> scripts of people sedding and awking around with the iproute output.
> 
> It would also be good to have a help text describing 'ip l a' as
> 'ip l h' doesn't mention it at all in at least iproute2-ss080725 which 
> seems to be the latest release.
> 
> Until there's an easy accessible help text I'll stick to vconfig :)
> I know the iproute help texts aren't always that easy to read but at 
> least they beat getting:
> 
> # ip l a
> RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported

Actually it seems something broke probing in the kernel, let me look
into it.

Re: Could you make vconfig less stupid?

[Stephen Hemminger]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:28:02 +0200
Milan Kocian <milon@wq.cz> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 02:56:03PM +0200, Patrick McHardy wrote:
> > Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
> >> On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Milan Kocian wrote:
> >>> hello,
> >>>
> >>> btw. How can I see vlan id on device ?
> >>> After:
> >>> # ip l a l eth0 type vlan id 100
> >>> # ip a
> >>> I see:
> >>>
> >>> 64: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
> >>>     link/ether 00:16:d3:3e:4e:b9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> >>>
> >>> No vlan id in interface name ?
> >>>
> >>> # ip -V
> >>> ip utility, iproute2-ss080725
> >>>
> >>> regards,
> >> Use flag -d
> >> rich ip # ./ip -d l show dev vlan0
> >> 31: vlan0@eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
> >>     link/ether 00:1e:8c:89:78:af brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> >>     vlan id 100 <REORDER_HDR>
> >
> > It would be better to have -d as a default, I was afraid of breaking
> > scripts of people sedding and awking around with the iproute output.
> >
> > Stephen should make this call, I'm not sure what guarantees he wants
> > to provide. I just remembered one of my previous jobs where a large
> > number of scripts had to be changed because iproute started using
> > lower case letters in some spots, and I had to do it :)
> 
> Thanks for quick answer. 
> Yes, -d will be fine.
> It is a pity that vlan id will not be in interface name. It was 
> comfortable to have vlan id in interface name. 
> Any reason for changing naming schema ?
> 
> regards,
> 
> -- 
> Milan Kocian

It should always show type information (ie vlan etc).
Scripts that can't take extra lines might break even with -d since they might have
been using that already.  As long as new information appears after old, it should
be okay.